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Jeffrey Watts | 1 May 2008 06:24
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Giving away / Selling old stuff

A lot of stuff moved quickly, but I still have about half of it left.
Here's what I still have.

Sorry to impose again on the list.

Jeffrey.

785 dash 550 dash 5689

 >   STUFF I'M ASKING MONEY FOR
 >
 >   --- PC systems ---

>   * Dual PentiumII 300mHz SMP system, Tyan Thunder 2 S1696D motherboard,
 >   Adaptec PCI SCSI card, Trident ISA video card, has memory but not sure
 >   how much, SCSI CDROM, two internal PATA hard drives (one is a WD,
 >   other is a Seagate I think).  This was my server for a long time, was
 >   a really sweet system back when dinosaurs ruled the earth.  Floppy
 >   drive, midtower case with 235W PS.  $15
 >

>   --- Sun Microsystems ---
 >   * Sun SPARCclassic  $10
 >   * Sun SPARCstation IPX  $10
 >   * Sun SPARCstation IPX  $10
 >   * Sun SPARCstation 5  $20  (with free Sun oddball keyboard)
 >   * Sun model 411 external hard drive enclosure, 50pin HD scsi
 >   interface, has ST31200N 1.2gb Seagate hard drive inside.  $10
 >   (I believe all of the systems above can run Linux without problems)
 >
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Greg Brooks | 7 May 2008 04:37

DSL link aggregation?

Anyone successfully used link aggregation to combine two ADSL lines for
greater outbound bandwidth?

Because it's asymmetrical bandwidth, I'm fine for inbound speed. but I need
to regularly move large files to FTP, and it's becoming an issue.

So, if I'm moving data from a single user (me) to a single point (an FTP
site), does link aggregation double my bandwidth? I understand how it would
work in multi-users-to-the-net environments, but can't quite get how (or if)
it would work in this scenario.

I really don't want to pay the $1025/mo for a T1 line to the house, but it's
my only other option.

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

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James R. Sissel | 7 May 2008 04:46
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Fwd: DSL link aggregation?

Take the file and reverse it so the last bit is the first and the first bit 
is the last.  Then your DSL will think it is downloading the file when you 
upload it and you'll get faster speed. ;)

>Because it's asymmetrical bandwidth, I'm fine for inbound speed. but I need
>to regularly move large files to FTP, and it's becoming an issue.

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Billy Crook | 7 May 2008 07:21
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Re: DSL link aggregation?

For a number of technical reasons, it is not possible to use two
residential internet connections to "accelerate" the path between the
same two computers.  At least when using TCP, a persistent connection
has to originate from an IP address.  Each of the dsl modems will be
provisioning unique IP addresses.  Thus one connection can only
originate from one of the two dsl modems at a time and only use one
modem's worth of bandwidth.  With cooperation of the ISP, you could
channel bond, but that cooperation will cost you $1025/mo and require
a special router at both ends of the connection.  The best you can
hope for is to "balance" logical IP traffic over the two outbound
interfaces, such that a multitude of LAN clients can split their
bandwidth half and half between either internet connection.  This
itself is very difficult do do and would require some iptables/route
table kung-foo the likes of which I have never heard of in any
pre-existing firewall distro, but still wouldn't help with the problem
you describe.  There are some "network appliances" that offer "dual
WAN" but read the fine print.  They might just be for failover.  You'd
want load balancing.

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Greg Brooks <gregb@...> wrote:
> Anyone successfully used link aggregation to combine two ADSL lines for
>  greater outbound bandwidth?
>
>  Because it's asymmetrical bandwidth, I'm fine for inbound speed. but I need
>  to regularly move large files to FTP, and it's becoming an issue.
>
>  So, if I'm moving data from a single user (me) to a single point (an FTP
>  site), does link aggregation double my bandwidth? I understand how it would
>  work in multi-users-to-the-net environments, but can't quite get how (or if)
>  it would work in this scenario.
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Jonathan Hutchins | 7 May 2008 15:12
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Re: DSL link aggregation?

On Wednesday 07 May 2008 00:21:50 Billy Crook wrote:
> For a number of technical reasons, it is not possible to use two
> residential internet connections to "accelerate" the path between the
> same two computers.  

Gee, we used to use multiple modems on the same PC all the time, there are 
features in a number of connection management programs to allow this.  Why it 
wouldn't work with DSL is not apparent.
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Charles Steinkuehler | 7 May 2008 16:42

Re: DSL link aggregation?


Billy Crook wrote:
| For a number of technical reasons, it is not possible to use two
| residential internet connections to "accelerate" the path between the
| same two computers.  At least when using TCP, a persistent connection
| has to originate from an IP address.  Each of the dsl modems will be
| provisioning unique IP addresses.  Thus one connection can only
| originate from one of the two dsl modems at a time and only use one
| modem's worth of bandwidth.

Um...sort-of.

The above is true for the *RETURN* traffic, which will be routed based
on IP address.

The problem, however, is with *OUTBOUND* traffic, due to the
asymmetrical nature of the DSL connection.  It would be perfectly
acceptable to send half of the outbound packets via ISP #1, as usual,
and the other half of the packets via ISP #2.  The trick is, the source
IP needs to be the same for *ALL* of the packets.

As long as at least one of your ISPs isn't doing egress filtering for
spoofed source IPs, your traffic will get through, and you'll have twice
the upload bandwidth (assuming the system you're talking to on the other
end can easily handle the out-of-order packet arrival that will likely
result).

Setting this up will require some crafty playing with iptables (assuming
you're masquerading your internal machines) and the kernel routing
tables, but it should be quite possible.  Check into the 'ip' command
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Geoffrion, Ron P [IT] | 7 May 2008 19:17
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RE: DSL link aggregation?

>>Because it's asymmetrical bandwidth, I'm fine for inbound speed. but I need to regularly move large
>>files to FTP, and it's becoming an issue.

Do they really have to be generated on the home computer, or can you generate them on your website which
presumably has better speeds both ways.

Thanks,

Ron Geoffrion
913.488.7664

Because it's asymmetrical bandwidth, I'm fine for inbound speed. but I need to regularly move large files
to FTP, and it's becoming an issue.

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Jonathan Hutchins | 8 May 2008 00:15
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RE: DSL link aggregation?

On Wed, May 7, 2008 11:10, James Nelson wrote:

> Multiple modems work because the ISP can simply set a bonding option in
> radius.

One would think so, but we had connections through two different ISP's and
Windows was able to "bond" them together into a single pipe for FTP.  We
were very surprised when we tried it and it just took off.

> DSL is different and requires special modems at both ends of the
> connection.

Wouldn't surprise me if that were true, but also wouldn't surprise me if
there were a software-workaround if you were running pppOe, just because
I've seen it work with ppp before.

Still, I would speculate (as I chide others for doing) that the
shared-bandwidth nature of DSL would probably make this less useful than
discrete phone line ppp bonding.

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Bradley Hook | 8 May 2008 00:20

Re: DSL link aggregation?

Is it possible to get two ADSL lines to work together to increase
up-stream bandwidth w/o the help of your ISP(s)? Yes. Is it easy? No.
Will it actually double your bandwidth? No. Are you better off finding
another solution? Yes.

There are a variety of ways you could make this work, but none of them
are going to do quite what you want. You could wrap your regular
connections in a virtual interface that load balances packets over two
different interfaces, and then have a similar setup on the server that
is receiving the packets. This solution will end up only getting you a
slight improvement in bandwidth because of the overhead you are going to
have in wrapping the other connections. In addition, you will lose latency.

If you aren't tied to FTP in particular, you could hack together a
BitTorrent setup where your home machine seeds your files on both public
IPs, and your server can then download different fragments of the file
from both connections simultaneously. If this is an option, you could
set up a private BitTorrent tracker on your server and bond together
dozens of ADSL circuits if you wanted to. You'll piss your ISP off if
they figure out what your're up to though. You would probably want to
write a shell script or something to set up the .torrent, push it to the
server (via rsync or some such), and then cause the server to initiate a
bt download.

Greg Brooks wrote:
> Anyone successfully used link aggregation to combine two ADSL lines for
> greater outbound bandwidth?
> 
> Because it's asymmetrical bandwidth, I'm fine for inbound speed. but I need
> to regularly move large files to FTP, and it's becoming an issue.
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Greg Brooks | 8 May 2008 00:38

RE: DSL link aggregation?

Bradley, thanks (and thank you to everyone else who was helpful as well!)
for this.

Bittorrent is an innovative solution -- I like it! However, I'm hampered by:

* Corporate clients and their corporate IT departments who will be sniffy
about using it.

* Unsophisticated users who are comfy with FTP and don't want to learn new
tools.

* Many different clients who need the bandwidth boost, so a point-to-point
solution isn't a good fit.

Soooo... looks like I may be the only guy in Plattsburg with a T-1. (That'd
be my guess, anyway -- it's a pretty tiny town.)

(Background for the folks who asked: We're doing some outsourcing work for
newspapers, and the typical work deliverable is a bundle of EPS pages that
weighs in at 70-300 mb. All of our client papers have extremely high
bandwidth and can download the pages quickly... it's getting them uploaded
to FTP on deadline that's taking more time than we'd like.)

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Bradley Hook [mailto:bhook@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 5:21 PM
To: gregb@...
Cc: kclug@...
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Gmane