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Karanbir Singh | 1 Oct 2008 03:26

Re: Canonical Not A Great Contributor

PJ wrote:
>> how many open source projects have they been 
>> working on that are now gold ?
> 
> So, ubuntu is not contributing back upstream into debian. 

ahem... well, the point was more about Canonical, not Ubuntu.

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Karanbir Singh | 1 Oct 2008 03:27

Re: Canonical Not A Great Contributor

Manoj,

Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>>> I don't agree to this point at all. Ubuntu is where it is because of
>>> it's community. 
>> Absolutely, and the technical community around Ubuntu is called Debian.
> 
>         And Ubuntu's effort in feeding back patches to Debian have not
>  really impressed the Debian developers that much (apart, perhaps, from
>  those being paid by Mark).

that is indeed the point I was trying to make, but failed to be clear on.

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Gaurav Mishra | 1 Oct 2008 13:05
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Re: Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@...> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Manoj Srivastava
<srivasta@...> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Sep 30 2008, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>        There is nothing that requires it, no. But then, we are not
>>>  talking about requirements, we are talking about whether Ubuntu fits
>>>  into the free software ecosystem, instead of leeching off it.
>>>
>>
>> How you can define free software ecosystem as just developing and
>> coding ?, I don`t really seems the point here, According to me Free
>> Software Ecosystem is much much more than that.
>
>        In that case, you have your own personal definition of what a
>  free software community is. The FSF, Greg, Me, and Debian at large
>  differ.
>

So why FSF goes on in events evangalizing Open source software, What`s
with RMS patent talks ?

"Greg" talk was in a developer conferences and his points where very
much valid to the audience there. But if his points were taken in
General that`s wrong.

FSF says Ubuntu is evil ? , Where ?
(Continue reading)

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Sandip Bhattacharya | 1 Oct 2008 14:01
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Re: Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 16:35:56 Gaurav Mishra wrote:
> And if you think that the Free software awareness Ubuntu has brought
> doesn`t qualify in being in Free software ecosystem , Then my friend
> you are wrong , Because then you bring to the conclusion that "FSF
> has no meaning of existence even"
>
> Will love to know *specifically* were i am wrong !

Actually, Gaurav, this is less of an FSF and more of a Debian issue. So 
no point in dragging FSF into this debate. :)

Manoj has a point in Ubuntu having problems fixing patches upstream. It 
might be true, but certainly not intentional. Ubuntu's benevolent 
dictator - Mark talks about Ubuntu's perspective of the problem here: 
http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/145 . You can certainly make 
out that he also agrees with the basic premise that changes should go 
upstream. But he also mentions atleast one aspect of the problem Ubuntu 
faces:

> In the month of April 2008, I found the following bug counts for
> large FLOSS projects: Upstreams: 	Mozilla 	5,334 OpenOffice 	1,076
> Gnome 	5,364
> KDE 	1,335
> Total: 	13,109
> Distributions:
> Ubuntu 	13,064
> Debian 	5,103
>
> With hindsight, April was possibly a bad choice, because it was an
> Ubuntu release month so there’s usually a small spike in the number
(Continue reading)

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Gaurav Mishra | 1 Oct 2008 14:18
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Re: Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya <lists@...> wrote:
> As Manoj has pointed out, there is probably a problem right now, and he
> might be right about it. My take is that it is not always an
> intentional thing but more of a case of a problem in managing the a
> project of the scale of Ubuntu.
>

Fully agreed , This is a very logical and practical reasoning. However
blaming Ubuntu is crazy

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Sandip Bhattacharya | 1 Oct 2008 15:34
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(Fw) FOSS.IN agenda for this year

foss.in is trying to change it's focus (again :) ) this year, and they are planning 
for something quite ambitious. In a way it is good for events to carve their 
own niche instead of having the same general outlook in each of them. 
Any comments?

- Sandip

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/foss-in/message/5219

------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Atul Chitnis <listadmin <at> ...>
Subject: FOSS.IN/2008: The Omelette Post :)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 16:51:06 +0530 (IST)

All:

A lot of people have noticed that unlike in previous years, we are not as
loud about FOSS.IN as we usually are. Now that the Call for Participation
is about to be published, it is time to explain why FOSS.IN/2008 is going
to be different from earlier incarnations.

First a quick reminder: FOSS.IN/2008 happens November 25-29, 2008, in
Bangalore, India. The website is at http://foss.in.

EVENT FOCUS
-----------

FOSS.IN has never been about advocacy, or philosophical discussions. While
such discussions may have their place, they steal valuable bandwidth when
it comes to getting things done. Especially here in India, where we tend
(Continue reading)

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Karanbir Singh | 1 Oct 2008 15:53

Re: Canonical Not A Great Contributor

Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
>> Launchpad .... isnt that closed source itself ?
> Closed source what? Software? Can you point me where I can download it?

Exactly. Isnt that a part of what the point is - that their development 
inhouse isnt really open at all ? Even the one product they have which 
can be downloaded isnt open source at all.

then there is the issue that while a single ubuntu install is gpl'ish 
licensed, a collection of ubuntu installs isnt.

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Karanbir Singh | 1 Oct 2008 15:55

Re: Canonical Not A Great Contributor

Gaurav Mishra wrote:
>> you seem to either prefer to evade the issue, or miss the point
>> completely. Anyway, enjoy.
> Hmm, I understand what you want to say and what greg`s talk was all about.

I dont think you do.. because...

> I didn`t made the point that RH, Suse, Centos and other open source
> distro didn`t made valuable contribution , Yes they did. But it`s also
> fair enough to say that ubuntu is making good enough contribution to
> FOSS world.

I believe a lot of the noise is about Canonical and their policy / 
processes.

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Gaurav Mishra | 1 Oct 2008 16:57
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Re: Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Karanbir Singh <mail-lists@...> wrote:
> Gaurav Mishra wrote:
>>> you seem to either prefer to evade the issue, or miss the point
>>> completely. Anyway, enjoy.
>> Hmm, I understand what you want to say and what greg`s talk was all about.
>
> I dont think you do.. because...
>

I think that Sandeep summed up nicely in his previous mail what i want
to convey, So no point of my explaining and repeating same things

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Gaurav Mishra

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crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward"

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Sandip Bhattacharya | 1 Oct 2008 17:30
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Re: Canonical Not A Great Contributor

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 19:23:44 Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
> >> Launchpad .... isnt that closed source itself ?
> >
> > Closed source what? Software? Can you point me where I can download
> > it?
>
> Exactly. Isnt that a part of what the point is - that their
> development inhouse isnt really open at all ? Even the one product
> they have which can be downloaded isnt open source at all.

You don't seem to have understood my question. What exactly are you 
implying is close sourced? A piece of software that is being 
distributed or otherwise commercially sold? Or the code behind a 
service that is being commercially exploited? 

- Sandip

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