Charley Quinton | 9 Feb 16:08 2016
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HitRecord.org

 [Re: libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 72, Issue 24]
Looks like yet another ploy by the misled. I wonder how aware the ACLU is with Eben Moglen. I'm pretty sure Eben is probably aware of this type of scheme. Maybe an open letter appeal to the creators of the site to improve the accessibility of the site would be in order? Just a thought. -- tractorcq libreplanet.org

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 11:00 AM, <libreplanet-discuss-request-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Joseph Gordon-Levitt Asks Public to Submit Videos for
      Project on Tech and Democracy (Aaron Wolf)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 08:43:10 -0800
From: Aaron Wolf <wolftune <at> riseup.net>
To: libreplanet-discuss-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] Joseph Gordon-Levitt Asks Public to
        Submit Videos for Project on Tech and Democracy
Message-ID: <56B8C59E.10004 <at> riseup.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

On 02/08/2016 12:34 AM, Fabio Pesari wrote:
> https://www.aclu.org/news/joseph-gordon-levitt-asks-public-submit-videos-project-tech-and-democracy
>
>> Actor and filmmaker Joseph Gordon-Levitt launched a new
>> community-sourced video project today with his production
>> company hitRECord and the American Civil Liberties Union,
>> putting out a call for people to submit videos with their
>> takes on the connections between technology and democracy.
>> The submissions will be used for a series of collaborative
>> short films about the subject.
>
> https://hitrecord.org/AreYouThereDemocracy
>
> The site requires nonfree JavaScript already and accepts only Chrome and
> Safari as user agents, so that's not a good start, however JGL is a huge
> Hollywood star and I think this is can be an extremely good chance to
> promote free software to the general public.
>

The "however?" is valid regardless, but besides the nonfree software,
hitrecord is an entire platform dedicated to locking cultural creativity
into a proprietary silo. Instead of using Creative Commons licensing or
something of that ilk, it's an attempt to get tons of creative
collaboration to happen under terms where JGL & co are the only ones
with rights to use the material that all the people are putting together.

Hitrecord does not claim exclusive rights over each contributors
copyrighted work, but since few of the contributors are using free
licensing, you won't be able to use your own work outside the system
when your work depends on material from others. So, all-in-all it's
tragic for all this community creativity to get limited to this walled
garden.



------------------------------

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End of libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 72, Issue 24
***************************************************


 
 

 
Michael and Wormy Kielstra | 8 Feb 10:10 2016

Code Museum

Hi all,

My name is Michael Kielstra, and I'm a hobbyist developer.  I'm currently working on an online 'code museum'.  The idea is to create an environment in which people who don't understand code can still appreciate its power, beauty, and importance, in much the same way that you don't need to speak Latin to appreciate a Medieval illuminated manuscript.  To that end, I'm looking for various pieces of code to put on it.  Obviously, open source will figure prominently and if you have any suggestions for what should go into the museum, bearing in mind that it is organized into 'exhibitions' (groups of exhibits) and then 'exhibits' (the actual code) like a bricks-and-mortar museum, please don't hesitate to tell me.  However, the main reason I'm posting here is that the main attraction of my museum, when it goes live, will be proprietary code.  I hope to be able to liase with people like Microsoft, Apple, and Google to get them to declassify some of their software.  I'm not looking for reams of critical source, just a little bit of header file or a function or two -- anything, really.  My problem is that as a relatively unknown hobbyist, I don't get noticed by these companies.  The FSF and LibrePlanet, on the other hand, have more than enough clout to get noticed, so if any of you would be willing to help me get this proprietary source, please do say.  Any suggestions, help, or ideas would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks very much.

Michael
Fabio Pesari | 8 Feb 09:34 2016
Picon

Joseph Gordon-Levitt Asks Public to Submit Videos for Project on Tech and Democracy

https://www.aclu.org/news/joseph-gordon-levitt-asks-public-submit-videos-project-tech-and-democracy

> Actor and filmmaker Joseph Gordon-Levitt launched a new 
> community-sourced video project today with his production 
> company hitRECord and the American Civil Liberties Union, 
> putting out a call for people to submit videos with their 
> takes on the connections between technology and democracy. 
> The submissions will be used for a series of collaborative 
> short films about the subject.

https://hitrecord.org/AreYouThereDemocracy

The site requires nonfree JavaScript already and accepts only Chrome and
Safari as user agents, so that's not a good start, however JGL is a huge
Hollywood star and I think this is can be an extremely good chance to
promote free software to the general public.

Daniel Pocock | 7 Feb 09:49 2016

how would an activist start with Free Software?


Some of you may have seen my recent blog about another group starting up
to "democratize" Europe[1], with a heavy reliance on undemocratic
platforms like Facebook that seems contrary to their aims.

If people from this campaign or any other like it wanted to bootstrap
themselves in a Free manner, do we have solutions for them?  Has anybody
ever written a guide or anything else to get people started?

Fabio Pesari | 6 Feb 12:27 2016
Picon

F-Droid's Antifeatures

F-Droid is great for finding libre Android programs, however I do have
an issue with their inclusion policy, and in particular their acceptance
of "Antifeatures":

https://f-droid.org/wiki/page/Antifeatures

I disagree with all of those compromises (except "Upstream Non-free",
since they patch their version to be free) and I wouldn't want them in
software I run (especially because, in some cases like Ads and Tracking,
they could easily be stripped out).

To be fair, they do warn users, so there is little risk of an informed
free software user installing any of them, however those share the same
repository as the other programs and I don't think that's good for
promoting software freedom.

I think that at the very least, F-Droid should distribute the fully free
programs from their main repository and if they really want to offer
programs with "Antifeatures", they should be distributed from a separate
repository that must be manually enabled (or they could ask the users
during the first run). They already do it for the "Guardian Project"
repository and this wouldn't be much different.

What do you think about it?

Esteban Enrique | 6 Feb 00:00 2016
Picon

Re: Reverse Engineering

I am new to the free software community, but one of the things I am most
interested in right now is reverse engineering. As you know, companies
like Intel are unwilling to release schematics which would allow free
software developers to write free microcode for processors. As RMS
pointed out at LibrePlanet recently (2013 I believe) reverse engineering
is a very high-priority project, as computers are becoming more and more
closed and locked down. 

RMS mentioned also that, as we now is true, it used to be and still
continues to be that we can promote free software by installing
GNU/Linux on existing machines originally built for proprietary software
(Mac and windows computers, which the vast majority of us use to run
GNU/Linux). Now and in the future it seems more and more that we will
have to tell people to purchase machines that are free from the get-go,
and that really sucks if you ask me. I would like to, having learned
about free software, take my existing PC or Mac and have my friend who
just enlightened me about free software liberate it. 

I know nothing about reverse engineering, but there should be plans to
create projects or organizations, clubs, websites, etc. that educate
free software users and hobbyists who are technically talented and interested to
reverse engineer existing hardware that can be used for GNU/Linux.
For example, LibreBoot is a project that could use more volunteers, as
it is pitiful that only a handful of laptops are capable of being
LibreBoot-ed.

What sort of plans are in place to get reverse engineering to be an
important topic for free software developers?

Fabio Pesari | 5 Feb 11:25 2016
Picon

Buying the rights to proprietary programs to free them

We hear about companies like Facebook and Google buying out startups all
the time and I thought, why don't we use crowdfunding to buy the rights
to proprietary programs ourselves and release their code under the GPL?
(Of course, we have to be sure all their dependencies are also free).

New programs might be too expensive but we might be able to buy the
rights to some older programs, as well as some indie games (of course,
we'd release the assets under the CC BY-SA in that case).

Can this be done? I know it would require huge sums of money but I think
plenty of people would donate to free a program like Renoise or a game
like Mount & Blade: Warband or Dwarf Fortress.

Fabio Pesari | 4 Feb 09:35 2016
Picon

Updating the High Priority List

https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/

This list is severely outdated. What about we propose new high-priority
projects? What proprietary programs (or network services without free
servers) do you or the people around you use _daily_ that haven't been
replaced by free software? Which free programs need more attention in
order to replace their proprietary counterparts?

Here is what I think about the current list:

> Gnash

Flash is dead, and Shumway is better than Gnash already (and actively
maintained by Mozilla), so it should not be listed.

> Coreboot

Libreboot is what we should support.

Also, it would be better to start working on libre hardware designs for
new computers than rely on old, out-of-production computers.

> Free software replacement for Skype

This is indeed high-priority, but I think the programs have already been
developed (Tox, Ring, Jitsi, Jitsi Meet), it's just a matter of getting
more people to contribute to them and to adopt them.

> Free software video editing software

I think the ones that exist are sufficiently advanced, and there are
more active projects here than most categories of software, so I don't
think this should really have high priority.

> Free Google Earth Replacement

Not many people use Google Earth And besides, OpenStreetMap is already
very popular, even outside the libre world: it wouldn't be too hard to
build a 3D program on top of it, as long as the data exist, so this
issue is more about data than software.

Marble is a KDE project and actively maintained, people should work on that.

> Help GNU/Linux distributions be committed to freedom

Agreed, but I think efforts should be directed toward GuixSD, which is
an official GNU Project and provides many features other distros don't.

> GNU Octave, free software Matlab replacement

Agreed it is important, I'm not sure it should be high priority. The
priority should be on convincing schools to adopt it.

> Replacement for OpenDWG libraries

Same as GNU Octave.

> Reversible Debugging in GDB

Already implemented in 7.0.

> Free software drivers for network routers

Not sure it should be high-priority, perhaps it'd be better if the free
software community built its own router with a libre hardware design.

> Free software replacement for Oracle Forms

Does anybody still use Oracle Forms outside enterprise? And besides,
replacements already exist, even if I have no idea how good they are.

> Automatic transcription

Agreed.

> Free Software replacement for Bittorrent Sync

Syncthing already exists, so it's not high priority anymore.

Johnny Merrill | 3 Feb 21:54 2016
Picon

Re: libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 72, Issue 8

Are you dependent on English internally?

You are a non free programming language.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 12:51 PM, <libreplanet-discuss-request-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Send libreplanet-discuss mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: List of free as in freedom programming        language (aurelien)
   2. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (Fabio Pesari)
   3. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (Koz Ross)
   4. Re: List of free as in freedom programming        language (aurelien)
   5. Re: List of free as in freedom programming        language (aurelien)
   6. Re: List of free as in freedom programming        language (aurelien)
   7. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (Koz Ross)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:04:03 +0100
From: aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
To: Alexander Berntsen <alexander <at> plaimi.net>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
        programming     language
Message-ID: <87io25muh8.fsf-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Alexander Berntsen <alexander <at> plaimi.net> writes:

> On 03/02/16 19:59, aurelien wrote:
>> Is there a list of free as in freedom programming language?
> Programming languages are not software, so you'll have to be a bit
> more specific as to what freedoms you mean.

Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.

So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?

--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 21:25:01 +0100
From: Fabio Pesari <fabiop-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org>
To: aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
        programming language
Message-ID: <56B2621D.6010508 <at> gnu.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

On 02/03/2016 09:04 PM, aurelien wrote:
> Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.
>
> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
> becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?

Well, for starters I would avoid languages tied to specific proprietary
platforms like Swift, even when their implementation is free, and those
languages whose official implementations have some proprietary parts
(like D, whose backend for DMD is nonfree), because that shows just a
plain disregard for the community, if anything.



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:24:13 +1300
From: Koz Ross <koz.ross <at> retro-freedom.nz>
To: aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
        programming language
Message-ID: <20160204092413.17a84073 <at> Emi>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see
> it becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another
> one?

Let's be a bit more specific here. There are several potential sources
of nonfreedom in a language:

- - The language's standard (or specification) may be nonfree.
- - The language's compiler or interpreter may be nonfree.
- - The language's toolchain may contain nonfree things.

There are languages which are not affected by any of these things
(Guile, for example), there are languages which fail in some places,
but not others (for example, Dlang), and there are languages which fail
in all three (although this is exceedingly rare these days).

I would say that as free software supporters, the last two are the most
concerning - a nonfree spec or standard isn't something we tend to
worry about as much (since the *C* standard is technically nonfree, but
I don't see anyone in our community calling for us to stop using it).

- --
Koz Ross <koz.ross <at> retro-freedom.nz>
www.retro-freedom.nz
If you aren't using GPG, you should be!
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en. ***
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html for why. ***
Proud member of the Open Wireless Movement. Find out more at
https://openwireless.org/ ***
Proud member of Peers, at http://peers.community/ . We grow freedom.
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:30:48 +0100
From: aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
To: Fabio Pesari <fabiop-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
        programming     language
Message-ID: <87d1sdmt8n.fsf-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Fabio Pesari <fabiop-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> writes:

> On 02/03/2016 09:04 PM, aurelien wrote:
>> Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.
>>
>> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
>> becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?
>
> Well, for starters I would avoid languages tied to specific proprietary
> platforms like Swift, even when their implementation is free, and those
> languages whose official implementations have some proprietary parts
> (like D, whose backend for DMD is nonfree), because that shows just a
> plain disregard for the community, if anything.

So it is possible to make difference between programming language.

Maybe it should be great to have a table to help people.

Like:

__________________________________________
Swift|proprietary implementations|...|...|
C

...

--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:39:55 +0100
From: aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
To: Fabio Pesari <fabiop-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
        programming     language
Message-ID: <877filmstg.fsf-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Fabio Pesari <fabiop-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
>> On 02/03/2016 09:04 PM, aurelien wrote:
>>> Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.
>>>
>>> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
>>> becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?
>>
>> Well, for starters I would avoid languages tied to specific proprietary
>> platforms like Swift, even when their implementation is free, and those
>> languages whose official implementations have some proprietary parts
>> (like D, whose backend for DMD is nonfree), because that shows just a
>> plain disregard for the community, if anything.
>
> So it is possible to make difference between programming language.
>
> Maybe it should be great to have a table to help people.
>
> Like:
>

> + as says Kos Ros
>>  - The language's standard (or specification) may be nonfree.
>>  - The language's compiler or interpreter may be nonfree.
>>  - The language's toolchain may contain nonfree things.
_____________________________________________________
Language|implementations|standard|compiler|toolchain|
Swift   |proprietary    |        |        |         |
C       |               |        |        |         |
Guile   |free           |free    |free    |free     |
Go      |               |        |        |         |
C++     |               |        |        |         |
C#      |               |        |        |         |
.net    |               |        |        |         |


--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:43:53 +0100
From: aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
To: Fabio Pesari <fabiop-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
        programming     language
Message-ID: <8737t9msmu.fsf-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org> writes:

> aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
>> Fabio Pesari <fabiop-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org> writes:
>>
>>> On 02/03/2016 09:04 PM, aurelien wrote:
>>>> Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.
>>>>
>>>> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
>>>> becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?
>>>
>>> Well, for starters I would avoid languages tied to specific proprietary
>>> platforms like Swift, even when their implementation is free, and those
>>> languages whose official implementations have some proprietary parts
>>> (like D, whose backend for DMD is nonfree), because that shows just a
>>> plain disregard for the community, if anything.
>>
>> So it is possible to make difference between programming language.
>>
>> Maybe it should be great to have a table to help people.
>>
>> Like:
>>
>
>> + as says Kos Ros
>>>  - The language's standard (or specification) may be nonfree.
>>>  - The language's compiler or interpreter may be nonfree.
>>>  - The language's toolchain may contain nonfree things.
_______________________________________________________
Language   |implementations|standard|compiler|toolchain|
Swift      |proprietary    |        |        |         |
C          |               |        |        |         |
Guile      |free           |free    |free    |free     |
Go         |               |        |        |         |
C++        |               |        |        |         |
C#         |               |        |        |         |
.net       |               |        |        |         |
Python     |               |        |        |         |
Emacs-lisp |               |        |        |         |
Lisp       |               |        |        |         |

--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:50:20 +1300
From: Koz Ross <koz.ross <at> retro-freedom.nz>
To: aurelien <aurelien-nvpvp9f6T1O6RMAqmwYopA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Fabio Pesari <fabiop-mXXj517/zsQ@public.gmane.org>, libreplanet-discuss-AEOBPLDIsFh2XvNHrDenQA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
        programming language
Message-ID: <20160204095020.4882565a <at> Emi>
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Fabio: I consider the platform part of the toolchain. However, you *do*
raise a valid point that I omitted - whether the language can run on
free OSes. While it is *exceedingly* rare these days, another potential
source of nonfreedom in a programming language is not being able to run
on GNU/Linux (in the sense that there's no compiler or toolchain
support for it).

It's also worth mentioning that a language might have free components,
but those may be second-class citizens. Dlang has two free software
compilers (GDC and LDC), but they're both behind the mainline in terms
of features and are basically ignored by the entire Dlang toolchain,
both from the community that makes said tools and the communities that
support them (for example, Flycheck has syntax checking *only* via dmd,
the proprietary compiler).

- --
Koz Ross <koz.ross <at> retro-freedom.nz>
www.retro-freedom.nz
If you aren't using GPG, you should be!
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en. ***
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
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End of libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 72, Issue 8
**************************************************

aurelien | 3 Feb 19:59 2016

List of free as in freedom programming language


Is there a list of free as in freedom programming language?

Is go(lang) a faif one?

kind regards

--

-- 
Aurélien DESBRIÈRES
Harry Prevor | 3 Feb 17:24 2016

Re: Teaching programming (was: libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 71, Issue 6)

(sorry for the double send Mike, forgot to address to the mailing list 
the first time)

On 2016-02-03 10:52, Mike Gerwitz wrote:
> Please don't link to Google Docs, as it requires that users run
> proprietary JavaScript, and does not work with JavaScript
> disabled.  See:
> 
>   https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html
> 
> As such, I and others cannot view it.  Perhaps you can export it in
> another format that others can view?

For the record, this has never been true. I wrote a program a long time 
ago that allows you to download Google Docs in the free ODT format; the 
script seems to have been lost but the process is still simple:

http://archive.is/Oxqwf

You may still not want to use GD because it may be difficult (but not 
impossible) to *edit* the documents using only free software, but it 
certainly is not hard to view Google Docs documents using only free 
software.

--

-- 
Harry Prevor


Gmane