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Nicola Ken Barozzi | 1 Jul 2004 09:15
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Re: [Skins] whs/lenya skin for 0.7

Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
>> Scherler, Thorsten wrote:
>> [...]
>> Excellent.
>>
>> In any case, there is no real need to necessarily use the whs skin, 
>> it's just that I like the look of it and the fact that it's available 
>> as an example.
> 
> Did you tested the whs skin for current SVN? 

Nope.

> I did not got it work 
> without rewriting the half of it. I like the look as well.
> 
> So I see two options:
> 1) try to bring whs and/or lenya to actual trunk.
> 2) Create a new one based on krysalis and instead of tables use just div 
> (more or less what I tried with the lenya one)
> 
> Since krysalis is the most well developed one I prefer 2). ...or do you 
> have a whs-0.6-dev.zip? For refactoring it would help to see a working 
> skin ;-). I will let me as well inspire by http://www.csszengarden.com/.

What can I say... go ahead as you prefer! :-)

>>> I did some small design changes on the krysalis-site and it took me
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David Crossley | 1 Jul 2004 11:47
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Re: Forrest skins (repository, build errors, testing, etc.)

Clay Leeds wrote:
> I spent some time searching the http://forrest.apache.org/ and was 
> surprised I couldn't find any sort of 'skins repository'. The only real 
> 'skins' related references I found were [1] & [2], which provide good 
> information about how to use and add skins, but not where to get them. 
> Is there a location which has a collection of skins (forrest-site, 
> krysalis-site, tigris-style, whs, xhtml-css, etc.)?

Did you use the build target 'forrest available-skins'?

However, watch out with those test skins. It is possible
that they are slightly out-of-date with the recent changes.

> On a related note, I've currently got the whs & xhtml-css skins (I 
> think I got them by following the forrest-dev list some time ago[3] & 
> [4]). Unfortunately, when I try to use these two skins, I get BUILD 
> FAILED errors I don't get with forrest-site. These errors are probably 
> related to skinconf problems though...

Any skins that were made a while ago, will probably need
attention. See the message in the Forrest changes:
http://forrest.apache.org/changes.html
... grep that page for "Rick Tessner".

> Finally, my offer of testing site skins[5] still stands... I just need 
> links to pages to test...

Great. I remember that that thread stirred a lot of interest.

Testing would be real good. Also we have not updated our
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David Crossley | 1 Jul 2004 12:09
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Re: duplicate issue search functionality

Lorenz Froihofer wrote:
> The search functionality of the issue tracker is very limited. Is there 
> any way to check for duplicates before creating a new issue?

Yes, i find it limited too. We are using an old version
of Jira at cocoondev.org. When we move to use Apache Jira
the search facility will improve.
http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa

We do have an Task to plan the move, but not enough hands to help:
http://issues.cocoondev.org/jira/secure/ViewIssue.jspa?key=FOR-192

--

-- 
David Crossley
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Nicola Ken Barozzi | 1 Jul 2004 12:11
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Re: [VOTE] draft Forrest Project Guidelines: Roles and responsibilities

Dave Brondsema wrote:

...
> I am satisfied with the roles and responsibilities, except where they are
> related to moving from one role to another (i.e. voting).  Let's move on
> to discussing those areas.
> 
> From Committers, "After a successful vote,".  A successful vote by whom?
> 
> From PMC, "While they are active, they are part of the PMC".  I think this
> is a little unclear.  Committers can join and disjoin from the PMC
> whenever they want?  Mailing list membership is the indicator of PMC
> membership?  We should also mention what the PMC does when a
> committer joins/disjoins it (from David's recent email: "acking you with
> board <at>  and adding you to the committee list").  Does that just mean
> approve his/her subscription to the mailing list?  Or is the "committee
> list" something else?

There is a lot of confusion on this :-)

The PMC is the core group of committers of a project, that take 
decisions for the project and maintain it. They live on the *dev* list, 
but have a private list solely for sensitive issues that they can use, 
called the *pmc* list (a better name would be *private*).

The committers are just developers that can commit and participate in 
discussions. By committing code and discussing, they are implicitly 
making day2day decisions for the projece.

The developers are like committers but without commit access: all their
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Nicola Ken Barozzi | 1 Jul 2004 12:18
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Re: [VOTE] draft Forrest Project Guidelines: Roles and responsibilities

David Crossley wrote:
...
> Well you Thorsten are in the class of committer (however
> we define that role) which belongs on the Forrest PMC.
> So just do the normal pmc-subscribe <at> f.a.o method and then
> we will handle the rest, acking you with board <at>  and adding
> you to the committee list.

Wait a sec, this is a Cocoon Project decision (to make any committer 
part of the PMC if he wants to), not of the Forrest Project.

Not that I would not want Thorsten in, but I would prefer we had a vote 
on this on our private PMC list.

--

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken <at> apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Nicola Ken Barozzi | 1 Jul 2004 12:16
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Re: [DRAFT] Forrest Project Guidelines

Clay Leeds wrote:

> (from the perspective of being just a 'user'--I think--at this point :-))
> 
> On Jun 30, 2004, at 5:22 AM, David Crossley wrote:
> 
>>> David Crossley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>>> ... but now that I have seen it I don't read in it
>>>> the fact that simple committers cannot vote
>>>> (as instead I would prefer).
...
> I concur with Nicola Ken Barozzi. A non-voting committer doesn't make 
> sense to me. To me it's not unlike having a soldier in the military with 
> a 'license' to kill, but who can't legally drink (in U.S.A. you can join 
> the military at 18, but you can't legally drink until you are 21).

In fact I meant the opposite, but I've not been clear, sorry.

The fact is that having commit access does not mean that you can 
necessarily vote. Having commit access is not a license to kill, as we 
can easily revert changes. It's just like getting into the camp, and be 
able to work there, but without taking long-term decisions.

Note that usual decisions should take place without the tedious process 
of formal votes if possible.
...

--

--
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Thorsten Scherler | 1 Jul 2004 12:41
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Re: Forrest skins (repository, build errors, testing, etc.)

David Crossley wrote:

>Clay Leeds wrote:
>  
>
> [...]
>
>>On a related note, I've currently got the whs & xhtml-css skins (I 
>>think I got them by following the forrest-dev list some time ago[3] & 
>>[4]). Unfortunately, when I try to use these two skins, I get BUILD 
>>FAILED errors I don't get with forrest-site. These errors are probably 
>>related to skinconf problems though...
>>    
>>
>
>Any skins that were made a while ago, will probably need
>attention. See the message in the Forrest changes:
>http://forrest.apache.org/changes.html
>... grep that page for "Rick Tessner".
>
>  
>

Jupp, most 0.5 skins need some rewritting regarding 0.6.

I did not had any luck either in installing whs-0.5. The problem is 
http://issues.cocoondev.org/jira/secure/ViewIssue.jspa?key=FOR-146 
described by Rick.

Due to the fact it is not (yet) part of the official dis I did not try
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Nicola Ken Barozzi | 1 Jul 2004 12:23
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Re: [RT] Does total content-view separation cut it?

Lorenz Froihofer wrote:
...
> A page that uses several images to explain some system behaviour (or 
> whatever) may depend on some predefined relative positions of the 
> graphics for readability. Imagine that some of the images are packages 
> of a system and by clicking on an image you can zoom in to the package 
> (opens another page).
> 
> Without the feature that you can also predefine the layout of a page, 
> you would have to use one large image with an image map (which is often 
> not desired or acceptable).

Why? Using tables to define the layout is not correct, as tables are not 
for layout.

> For such a page you want to ensure that the layout of the page is kept 
> the same for different skins (the relative position of the images should 
> not be altered).

What you could do is to add a class attribute to the images and use the 
extra-css section to specify their position.

In any case, the image thing has come up in my company, where it's not 
acceptable that one cannot put images on the side of the document with 
text flowing on it's edge. I'm not sure how to tackle this.

--

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken <at> apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Dave Brondsema | 1 Jul 2004 14:12
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Re: [DRAFT] Forrest Project Guidelines

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:

> Clay Leeds wrote:
>
> > (from the perspective of being just a 'user'--I think--at this point :-))
> >
> > On Jun 30, 2004, at 5:22 AM, David Crossley wrote:
> >
> >>> David Crossley wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >>>> ... but now that I have seen it I don't read in it
> >>>> the fact that simple committers cannot vote
> >>>> (as instead I would prefer).
> ...
> > I concur with Nicola Ken Barozzi. A non-voting committer doesn't make
> > sense to me. To me it's not unlike having a soldier in the military with
> > a 'license' to kill, but who can't legally drink (in U.S.A. you can join
> > the military at 18, but you can't legally drink until you are 21).
>
> In fact I meant the opposite, but I've not been clear, sorry.
>
> The fact is that having commit access does not mean that you can
> necessarily vote. Having commit access is not a license to kill, as we
> can easily revert changes. It's just like getting into the camp, and be
> able to work there, but without taking long-term decisions.
>
> Note that usual decisions should take place without the tedious process
> of formal votes if possible.
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Clay Leeds | 1 Jul 2004 16:00

Re: Forrest skins (repository, build errors, testing, etc.)

On Jul 1, 2004, at 3:41 AM, Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
>> Clay Leeds wrote:
>> [...]
>>> On a related note, I've currently got the whs & xhtml-css skins (I 
>>> think I got them by following the forrest-dev list some time ago[3] 
>>> & [4]). Unfortunately, when I try to use these two skins, I get 
>>> BUILD FAILED errors I don't get with forrest-site. These errors are 
>>> probably related to skinconf problems though...
>>
>> Any skins that were made a while ago, will probably need
>> attention. See the message in the Forrest changes:
>> http://forrest.apache.org/changes.html
>> ... grep that page for "Rick Tessner".
>
> Jupp, most 0.5 skins need some rewritting regarding 0.6.

"Erring" on the side of caution is nice, but IMHO it would be nice to 
have a page on http://forrest.apache.org/ where skins are housed. We 
could put them in a <gasp>table</gasp> (there are still uses for those 
things! ;-p) complete with a link to the .zip, a description, a pic, 
credits, and any applicable NOTEs. If there are problems with the 
skins, then we should outline the issues in the NOTEs section. If 
there's any other info I'm missing, then we can add it.

> I did not had any luck either in installing whs-0.5. The problem is 
> http://issues.cocoondev.org/jira/secure/ViewIssue.jspa?key=FOR-146 
> described by Rick.

I thought it was just me. :-)
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