Alexios Giotis | 1 Mar 2012 02:13
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Bugzilla #46962 - Deadlock in PropertyCache

Hi Vincent,

The unit tests where added by Mehdi but I could happily update them to Junit 4 and create the separate methods.

Related to the NullPointerException that you found, I tried many times but unfortunately I can't
reproduce them on my Macbook running MacOS X 10.7.3  with any JRE and have not seen it in any heavily loaded
server. What is the environment that you tested it ? I could test it on different servers/OS or try to write a
test of ConcurrentHashMap that can trigger it.

Related to what is happening, this is tricky. The ConcurrentHashMap does not allow putting null values, so
one would not expect to get back null values. But in the cleanReclaimedMapEntries() we are getting the
values using an iterator over the entrySet. As the javadoc says, the view's iterator are "weakly
consistent", never throw ConcurrentModificationException and they are actually designed to be used by
only one thread at a time. So this could explain why a null value could be returned. 

Depending on how this is reproduced, we could either avoid this by just checking for a null value or we could
put the iteration in a block synchronized on the map instance. This loop is done once per 10000 items added,
so it should not be slower. But before making this change, I need a way to reproduce it so that we are sure
about it.

Alex Giotis

On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:42 PM, Vincent Hennebert wrote:

> Sorry for the delay about this. I had a look at the patch some time ago
> but didn’t have enough time to apply it.
> 
> I noticed that a NPE occurs when adding the following piece of code to
> PropertyCacheTestCase and running it:
> 
(Continue reading)

Pascal Sancho | 1 Mar 2012 09:17
Picon
Favicon

Re: svn commit: r1293736 [1/38] - in /xmlgraphics/fop/trunk: ./ src/codegen/java/org/apache/fop/tools/ src/codegen/unicode/java/org/apache/fop/complexscripts/ src/codegen/unicode/java/org/apache/fop/complexscripts/bidi/ src/documentation/content/xdoc

Hi,

about  <at> author tag, I agree with Vincent, reasons are clearly detailed 
here [1] (note that it is not a strict rule, just an "incitation").

IIRC, this "incitation" had been discussed a long time after the FOP 
project began, and in addition, some parts (like rtf) had been developed 
outside FOP before donated to FOP project. So it can remain some old 
code or recently added libs that do not respect FOP coding style rules, 
that should not be taken as example.

[1] http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/dev/conventions.html#java-style

Le 29/02/2012 22:34, Glenn Adams a écrit :
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Vincent Hennebert <vhennebert <at> gmail.com
> <mailto:vhennebert <at> gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Glenn,
>
>     This commit introduces Java 1.6 constructs, however we are still
>     supporting Java 1.5 as the minimum version. Switching to Java 1.6 is
>     a significant decision that must be made by the project following
>     a vote. Please, either modify the code to make it 1.5-compliant, or
>     launch a discussion now about switching to 1.6. I’m personally OK with
>     it but I can’t speak for the whole project.
>
>
> I wasn't aware of specifically using any 1.6 constructs. I am building with
(Continue reading)

Jeremias Maerki | 1 Mar 2012 09:52
Picon
Favicon

[GUMP <at> vmgump]: Project xml-fop-test (in module xml-fop) failed

To whom it may engage...

This is an automated request, but not an unsolicited one. For 
more information please visit http://gump.apache.org/nagged.html, 
and/or contact the folk at general <at> gump.apache.org.

Project xml-fop-test has an issue affecting its community integration.
This issue affects 1 projects,
 and has been outstanding for 5 runs.
The current state of this project is 'Failed', with reason 'Build Failed'.
For reference only, the following projects are affected by this:
    - xml-fop-test :  XSL-FO (Formatting Objects) processor

Full details are available at:
    http://vmgump.apache.org/gump/public/xml-fop/xml-fop-test/index.html

That said, some information snippets are provided here.

The following annotations (debug/informational/warning/error messages) were provided:
 -INFO- Failed with reason build failed
 -INFO- Project Reports in: /srv/gump/public/workspace/xml-fop/build/test-reports

The following work was performed:
http://vmgump.apache.org/gump/public/xml-fop/xml-fop-test/gump_work/build_xml-fop_xml-fop-test.html
Work Name: build_xml-fop_xml-fop-test (Type: Build)
Work ended in a state of : Failed
Elapsed: 1 min 58 secs
Command Line: /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/bin/java -Djava.awt.headless=true
-Dbuild.sysclasspath=only -Dant.build.clonevm=true
-Xbootclasspath/p:/srv/gump/public/workspace/xml-commons/java/external/build/xml-apis.jar:/srv/gump/public/workspace/xml-xerces2/build/xercesImpl.jar:/srv/gump/public/workspace/xml-xalan/build/xalan-unbundled.jar:/srv/gump/public/workspace/xml-xalan/build/serializer.jar
(Continue reading)

Glenn Adams | 1 Mar 2012 10:00
Gravatar

Re: svn commit: r1293736 [1/38] - in /xmlgraphics/fop/trunk: ./ src/codegen/java/org/apache/fop/tools/ src/codegen/unicode/java/org/apache/fop/complexscripts/ src/codegen/unicode/java/org/apache/fop/complexscripts/bidi/ src/documentation/content/xdoc


On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Pascal Sancho <pascal.sancho <at> takoma.fr> wrote:
Hi,

about <at> author tag, I agree with Vincent, reasons are clearly detailed here [1] (note that it is not a strict rule, just an "incitation").

IIRC, this "incitation" had been discussed a long time after the FOP project began, and in addition, some parts (like rtf) had been developed outside FOP before donated to FOP project. So it can remain some old code or recently added libs that do not respect FOP coding style rules, that should not be taken as example.

[1] http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/dev/conventions.html#java-style

From what I can tell from the comments in [1], this convention was motivated by avoiding possible clutter from having every modification to a file (by a different author/contributor) be marked; that is, used as a form of history log.

From my reading, I don't believe this convention is intended to apply for original authors. This is backed by the language in [1] explicitly stating "excepted from this general rule are potentially confusing or wide ranging changes". In the present case, I would characterize the new CS files as "wide ranging changes". Also, I note that [1] states that this convention is: "not enforced; anyone is free to remove such comments".

As I stated in my prior mail above, I believe there is value to retaining <at> author in the case of original author attribution as well as for those cases where an existing work is significantly altered (in a wide ranging manner). This information is independent of the svn log and should not be discarded (in my opinion).

FYI, I did not add <at> author to any existing file that I modified; only to new files I originated.

G. 
mehdi houshmand | 1 Mar 2012 11:50
Picon

Google Summer of Code

Hi,

We're thinking of submitting a proposal or two to the Google Summer of
Code project and wanted to get some input from the community on ideas.
Once we've got a few proposals I'll create a wiki page and put all the
ideas on there, but for now I just wanted to gauge interest.

In terms of mentoring, I'm happy to be a mentor and I've registered as
one and if any other committers fancy the job, do register, the more
the merrier. The deadline is 9th March, so that doesn't give us long
to bounce around ideas, but here are a few I was thinking:

- There have been recent discussions between Jeremias, myself and
others about extracting the Fonts packages into their own library. I
think this would be a great idea for a project because essentially it
only involves a few, well defined specifications (TTF, Type1 etc) and
doesn't expose the person to too much complexity. The way I'd suggest
this to be done, is by re-writing rather than porting, that way it
gives the person much more flexibility and also the current code would
give them good tips and tricks on how to deal with parsing fonts.

- TTF in AFP. I know we still have the TrueTypeInPostScript branch
flying around, and however much I'd like to fob that onto someone
else, I don't think it's fair to do so. I have no idea how long this
project would take, but I think FOP could really benefit from it.
Currently we're forcing users to use AFP fonts for AFP documents, a
lot of which are archaic and use EBCDIC, for those of you who haven't
been exposed to EBCDIC, count yourself lucky.

There may be something to do with PCL?? I'm not at all familiar with
the format, but I do remember discussions about upgrading to a newer
PCL standard? I'd be happy to acquaint myself with the format if
there's interest in the idea.

Hopefully we can get a proposal together in time.

Mehdi

Alexios Giotis | 1 Mar 2012 13:20
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Bugzilla #46962 - Deadlock in PropertyCache

Vincent, 

No need to send more info. I just reproduced it on Windows Server 2008 R2 Enterprise running the latest,
'non-business', but not supported as of Nov 2009, Sun JRE 1.5.0_22. The production servers are all
running JDK6 and I could not test it on a Mac.

The bug is indeed related to the concurrent hash map iterators and is fixed on JDK6, see
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6312056

I will update the patch and I hope a committer will check it.

Alex Giotis

On Mar 1, 2012, at 3:13 AM, Alexios Giotis wrote:

> Hi Vincent,
> 
> The unit tests where added by Mehdi but I could happily update them to Junit 4 and create the separate methods.
> 
> Related to the NullPointerException that you found, I tried many times but unfortunately I can't
reproduce them on my Macbook running MacOS X 10.7.3  with any JRE and have not seen it in any heavily loaded
server. What is the environment that you tested it ? I could test it on different servers/OS or try to write a
test of ConcurrentHashMap that can trigger it.
> 
> 
> Related to what is happening, this is tricky. The ConcurrentHashMap does not allow putting null values,
so one would not expect to get back null values. But in the cleanReclaimedMapEntries() we are getting the
values using an iterator over the entrySet. As the javadoc says, the view's iterator are "weakly
consistent", never throw ConcurrentModificationException and they are actually designed to be used by
only one thread at a time. So this could explain why a null value could be returned. 
> 
> Depending on how this is reproduced, we could either avoid this by just checking for a null value or we could
put the iteration in a block synchronized on the map instance. This loop is done once per 10000 items added,
so it should not be slower. But before making this change, I need a way to reproduce it so that we are sure
about it.
> 
> 
> Alex Giotis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:42 PM, Vincent Hennebert wrote:
> 
>> Sorry for the delay about this. I had a look at the patch some time ago
>> but didn’t have enough time to apply it.
>> 
>> I noticed that a NPE occurs when adding the following piece of code to
>> PropertyCacheTestCase and running it:
>> 
>>   private final PropertyCache<Integer> cache = new PropertyCache<Integer>();
>> 
>>   private class CacheFiller implements Runnable {
>> 
>>       private final int start;
>> 
>>       CacheFiller(int start) {
>>           this.start = start;
>>       }
>> 
>>       public void run() {
>>           for (int i = 0; i < 1000000; i++) {
>>               cache.fetch(new Integer(start + i));
>>           }
>>       }
>>   }
>> 
>>   public void testCleanUp() throws InterruptedException {
>>       Thread t1 = new Thread(new CacheFiller(0));
>>       Thread t2 = new Thread(new CacheFiller(10000));
>>       t1.start();
>>       t2.start();
>>       t1.join();
>>       t2.join();
>>   }
>> 
>> Here’s the stacktrace:
>> Exception in thread "Thread-1" java.lang.NullPointerException
>> 	at
>> org.apache.fop.fo.properties.PropertyCache.cleanReclaimedMapEntries(PropertyCache.java:153)
>> 	at org.apache.fop.fo.properties.PropertyCache.fetch(PropertyCache.java:105)
>> 	at
>> org.apache.fop.fo.properties.PropertyCacheTestCase$CacheFiller.run(PropertyCacheTestCase.java:68)
>> 	at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:595)
>> 
>> It happens when running the test with a Sun 1.5 JRE but apparently not
>> with OpenJDK 1.6. I’m still unsure about what’s happening.
>> 
>> It would be good to update the test cases to JUnit 4. Also, there are
>> some clean-ups and improvements to bring. Among other things, symmetry
>> is not properly tested in FObjectTest (symmetric.equals(getSut()) should
>> also be run); the tests for reflexivity, symmetry and transitivity
>> should be put in separate methods; testFailureCases is misnamed; etc.
>> Little things but that take some time to fix.
>> 
>> Vincent
>> 
>> 
>> On 28/02/12 17:09, mehdi houshmand wrote:
>>> Hi Guys,
>>> 
>>> My apologies for the lack of transparency on this issue, but I didn't
>>> actually review the changes you made here, in fact, I barely looked at
>>> what PropertyCache actually does. I had some free time, and added a
>>> bunch of unit tests.
>>> 
>>> The reason this hasn't been committed yet was because Vincent said he
>>> had some questions about the patch. That's as far as I know, maybe he
>>> could give some feedback on the issue.
>>> 
>>> Let me reiterate my apologies again on this, it's not fair that this
>>> has been ignored. I'll endeavour to make the process more transparent
>>> in future, I hope this doesn't prevent you or any other contributors
>>> from submitting patches.
>>> 
>>> Mehdi
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 28 February 2012 16:52, Glenn Adams <glenn <at> skynav.com> wrote:
>>>> I support committing this patch, however I don't see an ICLA listed at [1]
>>>> for Alexios. Alexios, if you have not submitted an ICLA [2], please do so.
>>>> 
>>>> I would be happy to apply the patch (if Mehdi doesn't have the time).
>>>> 
>>>> [1] http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html#unlistedclas
>>>> [2] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Alexios Giotis <alex.giotis <at> gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> About 6 months ago, I had a deadlock issue that regularly stopped
>>>>> production servers. While I was opening a bugzilla ticket, I found that this
>>>>> was already reported back in 2009. This issue is still opened as it was
>>>>> difficult to reproduce. On that issue, I added:
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] An explanation of why a deadlock is possible.
>>>>> [1] Stacktraces of deadlocked threads from a production server.
>>>>> [2] A small unit test that adds a Thread.sleep() to the PropertyCache to
>>>>> make it always reproducable.
>>>>> [3] A patch solving this issue.
>>>>> [4] Explanations of why the patch rewrites the existing PropertyCache
>>>>> class.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This was then reviewed and unit tests were added [5]. On top of this, I
>>>>> have committed the fix in my private branch and it works well on several big
>>>>> production systems. This is as far as I can go before a FOP committer takes
>>>>> it further. I am writing this because:
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Deadlocks should be fixed. When they occur, there is no way around them.
>>>>> - The trunk is moving, the patch is aging and it will be more difficult to
>>>>> apply it over time.
>>>>> - It is discouraging for submitting more patches.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alexios Giotis
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=46962#c3
>>>>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=27342
>>>>> [3] https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=27477&action=diff
>>>>> [4] https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=46962#c7
>>>>> [5] https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=46962#c9
>>>>> 
>>>> 
> 

Glenn Adams | 1 Mar 2012 17:13
Gravatar

Re: Google Summer of Code

could you provide a link to the "Google Summer of Code Project"? how does it relate to ASF and FOP activities?

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 3:50 AM, mehdi houshmand <med1985 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

We're thinking of submitting a proposal or two to the Google Summer of
Code project and wanted to get some input from the community on ideas.
Once we've got a few proposals I'll create a wiki page and put all the
ideas on there, but for now I just wanted to gauge interest.

In terms of mentoring, I'm happy to be a mentor and I've registered as
one and if any other committers fancy the job, do register, the more
the merrier. The deadline is 9th March, so that doesn't give us long
to bounce around ideas, but here are a few I was thinking:

- There have been recent discussions between Jeremias, myself and
others about extracting the Fonts packages into their own library. I
think this would be a great idea for a project because essentially it
only involves a few, well defined specifications (TTF, Type1 etc) and
doesn't expose the person to too much complexity. The way I'd suggest
this to be done, is by re-writing rather than porting, that way it
gives the person much more flexibility and also the current code would
give them good tips and tricks on how to deal with parsing fonts.

- TTF in AFP. I know we still have the TrueTypeInPostScript branch
flying around, and however much I'd like to fob that onto someone
else, I don't think it's fair to do so. I have no idea how long this
project would take, but I think FOP could really benefit from it.
Currently we're forcing users to use AFP fonts for AFP documents, a
lot of which are archaic and use EBCDIC, for those of you who haven't
been exposed to EBCDIC, count yourself lucky.

There may be something to do with PCL?? I'm not at all familiar with
the format, but I do remember discussions about upgrading to a newer
PCL standard? I'd be happy to acquaint myself with the format if
there's interest in the idea.

Hopefully we can get a proposal together in time.

Mehdi

mehdi houshmand | 1 Mar 2012 17:26
Picon

Re: Google Summer of Code

Hi Glenn,

The GSoC doesn't relate directly to the ASF or FOP directly, however,
putting a few FOP projects as proposals would be a good way to get
some new interest into the project. I think it would be good for us as
we benefit from any work done, and it helps whomever does the work
learn the various skills that we as a community can impart upon them.

I've included a link to the GSoC below, but if you do some research,
there's plenty of information out there.

http://code.google.com/soc/

Mehdi

On 1 March 2012 16:13, Glenn Adams <glenn <at> skynav.com> wrote:
> could you provide a link to the "Google Summer of Code Project"? how does it
> relate to ASF and FOP activities?
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 3:50 AM, mehdi houshmand <med1985 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We're thinking of submitting a proposal or two to the Google Summer of
>> Code project and wanted to get some input from the community on ideas.
>> Once we've got a few proposals I'll create a wiki page and put all the
>> ideas on there, but for now I just wanted to gauge interest.
>>
>> In terms of mentoring, I'm happy to be a mentor and I've registered as
>> one and if any other committers fancy the job, do register, the more
>> the merrier. The deadline is 9th March, so that doesn't give us long
>> to bounce around ideas, but here are a few I was thinking:
>>
>> - There have been recent discussions between Jeremias, myself and
>> others about extracting the Fonts packages into their own library. I
>> think this would be a great idea for a project because essentially it
>> only involves a few, well defined specifications (TTF, Type1 etc) and
>> doesn't expose the person to too much complexity. The way I'd suggest
>> this to be done, is by re-writing rather than porting, that way it
>> gives the person much more flexibility and also the current code would
>> give them good tips and tricks on how to deal with parsing fonts.
>>
>> - TTF in AFP. I know we still have the TrueTypeInPostScript branch
>> flying around, and however much I'd like to fob that onto someone
>> else, I don't think it's fair to do so. I have no idea how long this
>> project would take, but I think FOP could really benefit from it.
>> Currently we're forcing users to use AFP fonts for AFP documents, a
>> lot of which are archaic and use EBCDIC, for those of you who haven't
>> been exposed to EBCDIC, count yourself lucky.
>>
>> There may be something to do with PCL?? I'm not at all familiar with
>> the format, but I do remember discussions about upgrading to a newer
>> PCL standard? I'd be happy to acquaint myself with the format if
>> there's interest in the idea.
>>
>> Hopefully we can get a proposal together in time.
>>
>> Mehdi
>
>

Vincent Hennebert | 1 Mar 2012 21:08
Picon

Re: svn commit: r1293736 [1/38] - in /xmlgraphics/fop/trunk: ./ src/codegen/java/org/apache/fop/tools/ src/codegen/unicode/java/org/apache/fop/complexscripts/ src/codegen/unicode/java/org/apache/fop/complexscripts/bidi/ src/documentation/content/xdoc

The discussion about  <at> author tags is an old debate that was solved years
ago in the favour of removing them. This is actually an official
recommendation made by the ASF Board:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-jmeter-dev/200402.mbox/%3C4039F65E.7020406 <at> atg.com%3E

Like Pascal said, the existing tags in the FOP codebase appear in code
that predates this recommendation.

In the present case, since you committed the files yourself, it’s
crystal-clear who is the author of the code IMO. svn annotate will
reveal that much better than an  <at> author tag.

I think we should keep in line with the Board recommendation.

Thanks,
Vincent

On 01/03/12 09:00, Glenn Adams wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Pascal Sancho <pascal.sancho <at> takoma.fr>wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> about  <at> author tag, I agree with Vincent, reasons are clearly detailed here
>> [1] (note that it is not a strict rule, just an "incitation").
>>
>> IIRC, this "incitation" had been discussed a long time after the FOP
>> project began, and in addition, some parts (like rtf) had been developed
>> outside FOP before donated to FOP project. So it can remain some old code
>> or recently added libs that do not respect FOP coding style rules, that
>> should not be taken as example.
>>
>> [1] http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/**fop/dev/conventions.html#java-**style<http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/dev/conventions.html#java-style>
> 
> 
> From what I can tell from the comments in [1], this convention was
> motivated by avoiding possible clutter from having every modification to a
> file (by a different author/contributor) be marked; that is, used as a form
> of history log.
> 
> From my reading, I don't believe this convention is intended to apply for
> original authors. This is backed by the language in [1] explicitly stating
> "excepted from this general rule are potentially confusing or wide ranging
> changes". In the present case, I would characterize the new CS files as
> "wide ranging changes". Also, I note that [1] states that this convention
> is: "not enforced; anyone is free to remove such comments".
> 
> As I stated in my prior mail above, I believe there is value to retaining
>  <at> author in the case of original author attribution as well as for those
> cases where an existing work is significantly altered (in a wide ranging
> manner). This information is independent of the svn log and should not be
> discarded (in my opinion).
> 
> FYI, I did not add  <at> author to any existing file that I modified; only to
> new files I originated.
> 
> G.
> 

Glenn Adams | 1 Mar 2012 22:38
Gravatar

Re: svn commit: r1293736 [1/38] - in /xmlgraphics/fop/trunk: ./ src/codegen/java/org/apache/fop/tools/ src/codegen/unicode/java/org/apache/fop/complexscripts/ src/codegen/unicode/java/org/apache/fop/complexscripts/bidi/ src/documentation/content/xdoc

ok, having reviewed the referenced board summary, I see that even though the explicitly discourage the use of <at> author tags, they also state that:


- for contributions of entire files/packages, it is permissible to
include a section saying something along the lines of "originally
written by ...". this text should occur *after* the copyright and
license header.

in light of this, I will remove the <at> author tags, and add comments noting original author; is this acceptable?

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Vincent Hennebert <vhennebert <at> gmail.com> wrote:
The discussion about <at> author tags is an old debate that was solved years
ago in the favour of removing them. This is actually an official
recommendation made by the ASF Board:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-jmeter-dev/200402.mbox/%3C4039F65E.7020406 <at> atg.com%3E

Like Pascal said, the existing tags in the FOP codebase appear in code
that predates this recommendation.

In the present case, since you committed the files yourself, it’s
crystal-clear who is the author of the code IMO. svn annotate will
reveal that much better than an <at> author tag.

I think we should keep in line with the Board recommendation.

Thanks,
Vincent


On 01/03/12 09:00, Glenn Adams wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Pascal Sancho <pascal.sancho <at> takoma.fr>wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> about <at> author tag, I agree with Vincent, reasons are clearly detailed here
>> [1] (note that it is not a strict rule, just an "incitation").
>>
>> IIRC, this "incitation" had been discussed a long time after the FOP
>> project began, and in addition, some parts (like rtf) had been developed
>> outside FOP before donated to FOP project. So it can remain some old code
>> or recently added libs that do not respect FOP coding style rules, that
>> should not be taken as example.
>>
>> [1] http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/**fop/dev/conventions.html#java-**style<http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/dev/conventions.html#java-style>
>
>
> From what I can tell from the comments in [1], this convention was
> motivated by avoiding possible clutter from having every modification to a
> file (by a different author/contributor) be marked; that is, used as a form
> of history log.
>
> From my reading, I don't believe this convention is intended to apply for
> original authors. This is backed by the language in [1] explicitly stating
> "excepted from this general rule are potentially confusing or wide ranging
> changes". In the present case, I would characterize the new CS files as
> "wide ranging changes". Also, I note that [1] states that this convention
> is: "not enforced; anyone is free to remove such comments".
>
> As I stated in my prior mail above, I believe there is value to retaining
> <at> author in the case of original author attribution as well as for those
> cases where an existing work is significantly altered (in a wide ranging
> manner). This information is independent of the svn log and should not be
> discarded (in my opinion).
>
> FYI, I did not add <at> author to any existing file that I modified; only to
> new files I originated.
>
> G.
>


Gmane