Michael Champion | 1 Apr 01:48 2005
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Re: What Does SOAP/WS Do that A REST System Can't?

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:00:10 -0500, Michael Champion wrote

> I maintain  that there is no deep architectural principle here --
> either approach exposes essentially the same order of complexity  from
> the service provider to the service consumer.

As is often the case, David Megginson
http://www.megginson.com/blogs/quoderat/archives/2005/03/31/rest-and-rss/
makes  a similar point far more eloquently : "REST offloads complexity
from the protocol (HTTP) to the content (XML). That makes REST look
simple as long as you focus only on the protocol, but RESTafarians
cannot get away forever with leaving the content format for data
unspecified."

His larger point that RSS is to the RESTful data web what HTML is to
the document web is very interesting too.  That would explain Dare's
recent conversion to RESTifarianism :-)  -- in the world of Web-based
information services a la MSN, Google, Flickr, Bloglines etc.,
HTTP+RSS probably does hit the 80/20 point or better.

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(Continue reading)

Midsummer Sun | 2 Apr 05:55 2005
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Re: (OT) Infinite email storage

I think Google is quite serious.. 

A line at the bottom "within my Google account" displays 
You are currently using 4 MB (0%) of your 1796 MB. And my used
percentage (0%) is always same.
The figure 1796 is constantly increasing (with a fixed rate). 

So it seems there is "no space limit".

Of cousrse Gmail cannot claim all strorage space in the Universe(this
includes space on Hotmail and Yahoo servers and also on my m/c). So
practically its not possible.

I think what there intention is: They are commiting that we will get
"constantly increasing GBs". So lets say after 5 years, my space will
be something like 100 GB. But that counter is just stored in there
software. The space on their servers is still same! But users will get
illusion that they are working with unlimited space.

(Oh now I have 1803 MB as I finish this message)

Best regards,

On Apr 2, 2005 1:29 AM, Ryan Tomayko <rtomayko <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 2005, at 2:33 AM, Razvan MIHAIU wrote:
> > Midsummer Sun wrote:
> >> My Gmail a/c is now infinitely large.
> >>
> >> Hats off to Google. Thank you Google.
> 
(Continue reading)

Alex Milowski | 2 Apr 05:56 2005

[ANN] smallx XML Infoset and Pipeline Released (Open Source)

Hello all,

I've just released the first public version of my XML Pipelining and 
streaming
infoset technology at java.net.  This release includes:

    * An infoset implementation that supports streaming of info items.
    * XML Pipelines
    * XML Components (filters) for common operations.
    * A full set of APIs and corresponding implementations for writing
      components for pipelines or otherwise.
    * Servlet and Servlet Filter integration that lets you run pipelines
      within J2EE web applications.
    * A streaming XPath subset
    * An implementation of XSLT 1.0 based on XT that runs natively on
      the infoset API.
    * a set of example applications
    * A module for Netbeans that allows you to run XML Pipelines
      inside the IDE.

This technology is an open-source project written in Java and hosted
at java.net:

    http://smallx.dev.java.net

You can download a pre-build binary and the examples.  All of the source
is available in CVS.

-- Alex Milowski  

(Continue reading)

David Lyon | 2 Apr 19:22 2005
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Re: Re: What Does SOAP/WS Do that A REST System Can't?


Michael,

That sounds like a heavy weight you've been carrying on 
your shoulders.... better lose some of the load or you might
start getting a hunchback.. :-)

but Roll-your-owns usually have a bit more flavour than the
packet variety. 

and being street legal while sounding nice, can often come
with restrictions that some enthusiasts are just happy living
with... isn't the smell of burnt avgas something special?

and as for these standards bodies, they still haven't produced anything that 
is anywhere near as good as commercial products from Sterling and others.

So the rest of us just sit back saying "ok, produce what you say you are going 
to produce - come back when you are ready".

And we just sit around and wait.. 

cancel that.. I'm going out for a swim.. the water is nice and warm this time 
of year round here...

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:15 pm, Michael Champion wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:17:56 -0800, Tim Bray <Tim.Bray <at> sun.com> wrote:
> > On Mar 30, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Michael Champion wrote:
> > > If on the other hand you are building systems that
> > > handle confidential information, mission-critical services, and have a
(Continue reading)

Ronald Bourret | 2 Apr 08:16 2005

Re: all group composition

Could you clarify this? I read it several times and still can't make 
heads or tails of it. Whatever happened to maxOccurs?

-- Ron

Bob Foster wrote:

> Many people come to the table thinking, "There's no reason why element a 
> has to be written before element b, so I should use 'all'." But that's 
> not actually the primary use case for all. It is for situations where 
> user-specified order does matter and you wish to enforce an upper bound 
> on the number of occurrences.

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Razvan MIHAIU | 1 Apr 20:26 2005

Re: XLINK support in browsers

Matthew Terenzio wrote:

>
> On Apr 1, 2005, at 5:01 AM, Razvan MIHAIU wrote:
>
>> Is there any browser that supports the XLINK
>
>
> Xlink doesn't seem to be or have been that actively pursued. Many 
> wonder if it, or a successor, will ever actually happen in a 
> meaningful way.

    What's wrong with XLINK ? At first sight it seems to be quite powerful.

Regards,
Razvan

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Razvan MIHAIU | 1 Apr 20:30 2005

Re: (OT) Infinite email storage

Midsummer Sun wrote:
I think Google is quite serious.. A line at the bottom "within my Google account" displays You are currently using 4 MB (0%) of your 1796 MB. And my used percentage (0%) is always same. The figure 1796 is constantly increasing (with a fixed rate). So it seems there is "no space limit". Of cousrse Gmail cannot claim all strorage space in the Universe(this includes space on Hotmail and Yahoo servers and also on my m/c). So practically its not possible. I think what there intention is: They are commiting that we will get "constantly increasing GBs". So lets say after 5 years, my space will be something like 100 GB. But that counter is just stored in there software. The space on their servers is still same! But users will get illusion that they are working with unlimited space. (Oh now I have 1803 MB as I finish this message)
    Good. In this rhythm, in 100 years, Google will finally take over the known universe:))




Best regards, On Apr 2, 2005 1:29 AM, Ryan Tomayko <rtomayko <at> gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 1, 2005, at 2:33 AM, Razvan MIHAIU wrote:
Midsummer Sun wrote:
My Gmail a/c is now infinitely large. Hats off to Google. Thank you Google.
Today is 1st April. Do not forget that.
Google announced gmail would have 1GB storage on 1st April last year. Do not forget that. :) Ryan

Marco Mastrocinque | 2 Apr 09:56 2005
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Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) and Attributes within an XML Document

Hi All,
       If I have got for example, in an XML Document

<Element Attribute="Attribute Text">Element Text</Element>

How do I reference the Attribute in the above with a Cascading Style Sheet,
so I can format the output on a web browser such as Internet Explorer
Version 6?

I know how to reference the 'Element Text' but not the 'Attribute Text'
using CSS, which is in an external file.

Thanks Marco Mastrocinque.

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Michael Kay | 2 Apr 11:08 2005

RE: XLINK support in browsers

> 
>     What's wrong with XLINK ? At first sight it seems to be 
> quite powerful.
> 

It's at the wrong place in the architecture. XML caught on because people
liked the idea of separating information content from presentation, and
XLink never recognized that. XML says you can use any names you like for
your objects and their properties, but XLink says you have to call your
relationships xlink:href.

In practice people are storing information in XML form, and using XSLT to
transform it into presentation formats like HTML and PDF (via XSL-FO). If
you do that, you can model your relationships any way you like, and give
them names that make sense. XLink just doesn't add value in that scenario.

Michael Kay
http://www.saxonica.com/ 

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Carlos Pita | 2 Apr 11:16 2005
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Re: all group composition

Currently I have neither gui nor plans for one
and every pattern that people will intuit would be
correct and clear and would exist. So it would
be nice for me if I could express the unordered
sets as a composition of the common properties plus
the specific ones. But I'm not arguing about
xml schema design and/or restrictions. Perhaps it is
better from the global picture to assume a given
ordering and simplify the task of the validator or
conform to a mathematical foundation or make
a compromise between different goals or whatever.
I was just asking if there is a way to achieve
that, not criticizing the lack of one. For me
it is clear that not fixating a particular
order would be desirable regarding my problem.
The big picture is another question. I could
express my loose restrictions elegantly and
briefly with relax ng, so perhaps it is not
really a matter of ordering being or not
relevant or desirable for humans or machines,
etc, all that in an abstract sense, but
instead of judiciously make a choice between
different solutions in particular scenarios.

Regards,
Carlos

> Piffle.
> 
> The UI for data entry can very easily put the additions in the proper
> order.  From that point on, the XML is easily searchable and processable
> by humans and machines.  In the typical case, a document is written once
> and read many times.
> 
> And I agree with the earlier poster who mentioned that if random order
> is allowed, people will intuit patterns that don't exist.
> 
> I realize that I'm taking my life in my hands by disagreeing with Dr.
> Kay but as Tommy told us years ago, "When order doesn't matter, it
> matters."
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> Carlos Pita wrote:
> 
> >In my case, the user will enter a subset from
> >a considerable number of properties and
> >order is not significative. So although
> >the properties are simple and intuitive per se
> >and the user has no no need to specify
> >or even know the entire set,
> 
> Michael Kay wrote:
> 
> >>
> >>My own recent experience of creating documents whose schema imposed an
> order
> >>that I found unnatural and impossible to remember was a very negative
> one.
> 
> 
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