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Jelks Cabaniss | 3 Jan 2004 22:42
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Re: Transcribing audio recordings

Lou-at-home wrote:
>> Could anyone possibly point me to some examples of TEI markup of
>> audio recordings of conversations?
>>
>> The conversations I'm interesting in transcribing consist of one
>> primary speaker answering questions, but during the questioning
>> part, there are lots of back and forths, interjections, and
>> interruptions -- from several different "questioners".

> There are some examples in the TEI chapter on transcribing speech of
> course http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/TS.html

Yes, that's excellent -- I'm using it as my primary reference.

> and a brief summary of BNC practice at
> http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/World/HTML/cdifsp.html.
> For real life corpora, you should look at projects such as the BNC
> (http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk) or the MICASE project
> (http://www.hti.umich.edu/m/micase/).

I am trying to find some more P4 TEI (XML) examples of transcriptions of
conversations.  Laurent Romary wrote me off-list and pointed me to an
instance which is proving very helpful (it's in French, and my French is
unfortunately not quite up to understanding all the nuances of what is being
captured).

I'm also especially *very* interested in XSLTs to transform these to HTML --
and, to a lesser extent, PDF.

Thank you, Lou.
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Toma Tasovac | 4 Jan 2004 14:20
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dictionary entries

Hello.

I started using TEI Lite to encode and annotate a foreign literary work
in xml, but I am now facing certain limitations.  Namely, in my
annotation, I need to provide a fair deal of grammatical and
etymological information about certain words and phrases from the text
using tags that are actually only to be found in TEI.dictionaries.

So I was thinking I should forget about TEI Lite and switch to TEI
altogether, but there I'm encountering another problem since I am not
really creating a dictionary, but want to put dictionary entries inside
<notes> which are themselves inside paragraphs... According to the
TEI.dictionary dtd, however, the <entry> element can be found only
within main body elements such as div0, div1 etc...  (which makes
perfect sense for a dictionary)...

So what are my options at this point?  How should I proceed?  Can I
keep the cake and eat it too?

All best,
Toma
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Francois Lachance | 4 Jan 2004 15:45
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Re: dictionary entries

What about placing the <entry> elements in a <div> element in the <back>
element of the <text> element and then using the ID/IDREF mechanism to
connect the entries to an anchor in the <note> element (or several
different anchors throughout the document)? The entries need not be
gathered in the <back> element, they could go in the <front> or in a
separate <div> in the <body>.

Aside: does anyone have a handy dandy tutorial on linking in TEI? I ask
because there seems to be more and more a need to explicate the ID/IDREF
mechanism and its applicability to various use cases.

> altogether, but there I'm encountering another problem since I am not
> really creating a dictionary, but want to put dictionary entries inside
> <notes> which are themselves inside paragraphs... According to the
> TEI.dictionary dtd, however, the <entry> element can be found only
> within main body elements such as div0, div1 etc...  (which makes
> perfect sense for a dictionary)...
>
> So what are my options at this point?  How should I proceed?  Can I
> keep the cake and eat it too?

You can embed fruits and nuts in your cake batter (see comments above on
pointing and linking via ID/IDREF) and eat to your validating heart's
content.

This leads me to ponder that perhaps the best culinary metaphor for a
TEI-document instance is the tali from the cuisine of the Indian
subcontinent. Pizzas are to DTDs as a tali is to document instance. The
pizza metaphor does not quite carry over to the document instance.  The
image of many containers on a tray that the tali provides must just answer
(Continue reading)

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Sebastian Rahtz | 4 Jan 2004 15:59
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Re: dictionary entries

Francois Lachance wrote

>This leads me to ponder that perhaps the best culinary metaphor for a
>TEI-document instance is the tali from the cuisine of the Indian
>subcontinent. Pizzas are to DTDs as a tali is to document instance. The
>pizza metaphor does not quite carry over to the document instance.  The
>image of many containers on a tray that the tali provides must just answer
>a craving for those looking for analogies with world cuisine.
>
>
ah, so soon we can introduce fusion food, where we put a plate of MathML
chips in with the thali (sp.?),
and maybe a dash of SVG sauce. Daring soles may like to have a whole
side dish of Docbook baked potatoes
for those occasions when the rice just won't cut the mustard.

Sebastsian
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Lou-at-home | 5 Jan 2004 00:17
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Re: [TEIXLITE] What is an 'epistle'?

An epistle is a letter. The  passage you quote from the TEI Lite
tutorial is discussing the common practice in early printed books of
including a prefatory epistle from or to some dignatory as a way of
introducing the work that follows. You know the sort of thing:

TO THE HONOURABLE LORD FLANNEL
MY LORD,
What splendid trousers you have! And how nice of you to pay for the
printing of this book about your world famous collection of trousers!
YOUR HUMBLE SERVANT
A. Hack

In TEI P1, there actually was a tag called <epistle> to mark such things
along with a number of other specialised tags like <foreword>
<dedication>. Then we saw the error of our ways, and turned them all
into <div type="epistle">  <div type="dedication"> etc.

I'm not sure exactly what you ean by "those elements", but I assume you
are referring to the list of divtop elements (<salute>, <signed> etc.)
given in U5.  The reference to "Epistles" is misleading, since the DTD
allows divtop elements to appear at the start or end of a <div> of any
type. The intention was probably to restrict their appearance to <div
type="epistle">s, but this is not enforceable by the DTD. And a good
thing too, since it's quite possible to find them at the start of say
<div type="foreword">s as well.

The comment "Epistles which appear elsewhere in a text will, of course,
contain these same elements" should probably be corrected to read "divs
of type epistle which appear..."
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Sebastian Rahtz | 5 Jan 2004 00:17
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Re: [TEIXLITE] What is an 'epistle'?

Lou-at-home wrote:

>In TEI P1, there actually was a tag called <epistle> to mark such things
>along with a number of other specialised tags like <foreword>
><dedication>. Then we saw the error of our ways, and turned them all
>into <div type="epistle">  <div type="dedication"> etc.
>
>
.....

>I'm not sure exactly what you ean by "those elements", but I assume you
>are referring to the list of divtop elements (<salute>, <signed> etc.)
>
>

you mean those elements that seeing the error of your ways should turned
into <div type="salute"> etc?

A Cynic.
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Sebastian Rahtz | 5 Jan 2004 01:13
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Re: [TEIXLITE] What is an 'epistle'?

Lou-at-home wrote:

> Certainly not. They would, if anything, be <ab type="salute">
> elements, since they are all inter level, not div level. I'm surprised
> at you!

ah, I see. parallel to <ab type="paragraph">, then?

sebastian "bring back <epistle>" rahtz
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Lou-at-home | 5 Jan 2004 01:09
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Re: [TEIXLITE] What is an 'epistle'?

Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
> Lou-at-home wrote:
>
>
>>In TEI P1, there actually was a tag called <epistle> to mark such things
>>along with a number of other specialised tags like <foreword>
>><dedication>. Then we saw the error of our ways, and turned them all
>>into <div type="epistle">  <div type="dedication"> etc.
>>
>>
>
> .....
>
>
>>I'm not sure exactly what you ean by "those elements", but I assume you
>>are referring to the list of divtop elements (<salute>, <signed> etc.)
>>
>>
>
>
> you mean those elements that seeing the error of your ways should turned
> into <div type="salute"> etc?
>
> A Cynic.
>
>

Certainly not. They would, if anything, be <ab type="salute"> elements,
since they are all inter level, not div level. I'm surprised at you!
(Continue reading)

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Francois Lachance | 5 Jan 2004 01:53
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inter and div levels

The witty exchange between Lou and Sebastian prompts me to ask Lou, now
back from holidaying, if he would kindly provide a neat little
disquisition on the element classes "inter" and "divn" [my copy of the P3
Guidelines being blank at page 780 -- I know I should consult P4 online].

The index to P3 does indicate that there are three div-related classes
(in alphabetical order):

divbot
divn
divtop

Yup, I checked P5 -- no "div" class (Yes, I know that the "divn" class
references <div> elements )

I am being a little stickler for a good reason. Would knowledge of divbot
and divtop classes help some encoders trying to place that extra <div>
after a <p>?

At present the Guidelines present the element classes atomistically (as a
descriptive alphabetical listing). Does anyone have a nice chart depicting
the relations between the various classes? If I read P4, correctly <ab> is
a member of the "chunk" and "typed" classes. Lou perhaps can enlighten me
as to the differences between ~levels~ and ~classes~. I am
partially perplexed by the following statement. I understand that <salute>
and <ab type="salute"> are equivalent but <div type="salute"> would be
possible, no, in a <div> within <div> use case? ...

> Certainly not. They would, if anything, be <ab type="salute"> elements,
> since they are all inter level, not div level. I'm surprised at you!
(Continue reading)

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Sebastian Rahtz | 5 Jan 2004 01:52
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Re: inter and div levels

Francois Lachance wrote:

>At present the Guidelines present the element classes atomistically (as a
>descriptive alphabetical listing). Does anyone have a nice chart depicting
>the relations between the various classes?
>
I entirely agree with the underlying sentiment here that the TEI class
system is as obscure to most
people as it is powerful.

In my view of P5, classes become more and more important, as the main
"API" for the TEI to expose
itself to other markup schemes. Writing Francois' nice chart would help
lots of people, I think.

Sebastian
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Gmane