Bowerbird | 1 Dec 2011 17:37
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there's no payoff in confusing the users

john said:
>   Have you considered using a PEG instead of regexes?

for all you home-schooled and self-taught programmers
for whom "peg" is far too computer-sciencey for comfort,
consider as an alternative the simple methodology i use...

i split the text-file on blank lines and place it in an array.

that is first-cut for my light-markup format, a.k.a., "zml"
-- zen markup language -- but it's alright with me if you
markdown people want to borrow it for your own purpose.

i mean, seriously, it's not like i could patent it, or anything.
(but, on second thought, perhaps i _should_ at least apply.)

then i walk the array, analyzing each item to see what it is;
the chunk might get tagged as a blockquote, or a heading,
or a list item, or a plain old paragraph, or _whatever_ it is.

then i walk the array again, using the tag for each chunk to
generate the appropriate output for the desired format(s)...

(sometimes the tag, or the output, is dependent upon the
surrounding chunks, and that's the reason i walk it twice.)

it's the methodology of a simpleton, i am the first to admit,
but it works, and it works well, and it works sufficiently fast.

best of all, for me, is that it's extremely easy to understand.

even better, for everyone:  it's easy for users to understand.

after all, there's no payoff in confusing the users.  is there?

-bowerbird

p.s.  "alright" is a word i like to use...  it's akin to "already"...
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Seumas Mac Uilleachan | 2 Dec 2011 01:53
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Re: there's no payoff in confusing the users

On 12/01/2011 11:37 AM, Bowerbird <at> aol.com wrote:
john said:
>   Have you considered using a PEG instead of regexes?

for all you home-schooled and self-taught programmers
for whom "peg" is far too computer-sciencey for comfort,
consider as an alternative the simple methodology i use...

i split the text-file on blank lines and place it in an array.

that is first-cut for my light-markup format, a.k.a., "zml"
-- zen markup language -- but it's alright with me if you
markdown people want to borrow it for your own purpose.

i mean, seriously, it's not like i could patent it, or anything.
(but, on second thought, perhaps i _should_ at least apply.)

then i walk the array, analyzing each item to see what it is;
the chunk might get tagged as a blockquote, or a heading,
or a list item, or a plain old paragraph, or _whatever_ it is.

then i walk the array again, using the tag for each chunk to
generate the appropriate output for the desired format(s)...

(sometimes the tag, or the output, is dependent upon the
surrounding chunks, and that's the reason i walk it twice.)

it's the methodology of a simpleton, i am the first to admit,
but it works, and it works well, and it works sufficiently fast.

best of all, for me, is that it's extremely easy to understand.

even better, for everyone:  it's easy for users to understand.

after all, there's no payoff in confusing the users.  is there?

-bowerbird

p.s.  "alright" is a word i like to use...  it's akin to "already"...


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What confuses me is what this all has to do with markdown.
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David Chambers | 2 Dec 2011 02:02
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Re: there's no payoff in confusing the users

I find discussion of techniques for building Markdown parsers very interesting. It's slightly off topic, perhaps, but I don't think this list is large enough to spawn a separate "Markdown implementers" list.


David


On 1 December 2011 16:53, Seumas Mac Uilleachan <seumas <at> idirect.ca> wrote:
On 12/01/2011 11:37 AM, Bowerbird <at> aol.com wrote:
john said:
>   Have you considered using a PEG instead of regexes?

for all you home-schooled and self-taught programmers
for whom "peg" is far too computer-sciencey for comfort,
consider as an alternative the simple methodology i use...

i split the text-file on blank lines and place it in an array.

that is first-cut for my light-markup format, a.k.a., "zml"
-- zen markup language -- but it's alright with me if you
markdown people want to borrow it for your own purpose.

i mean, seriously, it's not like i could patent it, or anything.
(but, on second thought, perhaps i _should_ at least apply.)

then i walk the array, analyzing each item to see what it is;
the chunk might get tagged as a blockquote, or a heading,
or a list item, or a plain old paragraph, or _whatever_ it is.

then i walk the array again, using the tag for each chunk to
generate the appropriate output for the desired format(s)...

(sometimes the tag, or the output, is dependent upon the
surrounding chunks, and that's the reason i walk it twice.)

it's the methodology of a simpleton, i am the first to admit,
but it works, and it works well, and it works sufficiently fast.

best of all, for me, is that it's extremely easy to understand.

even better, for everyone:  it's easy for users to understand.

after all, there's no payoff in confusing the users.  is there?

-bowerbird

p.s.  "alright" is a word i like to use...  it's akin to "already"...


_______________________________________________ Markdown-Discuss mailing list Markdown-Discuss <at> six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss
What confuses me is what this all has to do with markdown.

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Bowerbird | 4 Dec 2011 22:50
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let's get this established, one way or the other, once and for all

seumas said:
>   What confuses me is what
>   this all has to do with markdown.

david said:
>   I find discussion of techniques for
>   building Markdown parsers very interesting.

i can justify myself.  indeed, it's a good exercise every so often,
just to ensure that your position and directionality are focused.

but it's not right, or fair, that every month, someone regularly
trots out a one-line post essentially trying to put me in check...

so let's get this established, one way or the other, once and for all.

the two sides are sufficiently clear, i think, from the quotes above.

so register your vote on the issue, either with seumas or with david,
along with a sentence or two summarizing your position, if needed.
(or write an essay, if you want, it's all the same to me; but do vote.)

we'll leave the polls open through wednesday, unless a clear winner
hasn't emerged by then, in which case we'll extend it through friday.

-bowerbird
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Seumas Mac Uilleachan | 5 Dec 2011 01:45
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Re: let's get this established, one way or the other, once and for all

First off, I did not "trot out a one-line post" to put you in check. I subscribed to this list to keep up-to-date on the world of markdown. Like David, I too find the discussions about markdown parsers interesting. Unfortunately I usually have little to add to them because I am not a programmer. Your post however was a rambling soliloquy on the advantages of using blank lines for markup because it apparently doesn't confuse the users. That type of markup  is very prevalent in your z.e.n. system (yes, I have looked at it), but is limited in markdown. So I was confused about what the relevance to markdown was. You continually do go on about this using blank lines but that is not something that will be incorporated into markdown as you envision it. Thus, as a user, I was confused, which you claim to want to avoid.

Since you don't seem to want to enlighten me on the relevance of this to markdown I guess I will just remain confused, and since of late the majority of the discussions on this list seem to be centered around either your ramblings on using blank lines or on the state of affairs for markdown on the app store (presumably that has something to do with the Mac), neither of which interests me, I will just resign from the list and let you win. Yay you.

On 12/04/2011 04:50 PM, Bowerbird <at> aol.com wrote:
seumas said:
>   What confuses me is what
>   this all has to do with markdown.

david said:
>   I find discussion of techniques for
>   building Markdown parsers very interesting.

i can justify myself.  indeed, it's a good exercise every so often,
just to ensure that your position and directionality are focused.

but it's not right, or fair, that every month, someone regularly
trots out a one-line post essentially trying to put me in check...

so let's get this established, one way or the other, once and for all.

the two sides are sufficiently clear, i think, from the quotes above.

so register your vote on the issue, either with seumas or with david,
along with a sentence or two summarizing your position, if needed.
(or write an essay, if you want, it's all the same to me; but do vote.)

we'll leave the polls open through wednesday, unless a clear winner
hasn't emerged by then, in which case we'll extend it through friday.

-bowerbird


_______________________________________________ Markdown-Discuss mailing list Markdown-Discuss <at> six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss

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Bowerbird | 5 Dec 2011 03:41
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re: let's get this established, one way or the other, once and for all

seumas, my post wasn't directed at you as an individual.
and it's not a matter of anyone "winning" or "resigning".

it's a simple question as to what the subscribers here
want to hear.  i didn't denigrate _your_ choice, so i'm
not sure why you hurl charges like "rambling soliloquy",
especially when it's so easy to ignore a piece of e-mail.

whether something "will be incorporated into markdown"
is up to the developers who're making markdown happen.

at any rate, i suggest you stick around and see how the vote
turns out.  i don't think it's necessary that either of us leave.

-bowerbird
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Arno Hautala | 5 Dec 2011 04:49
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Re: let's get this established, one way or the other, once and for all

On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 21:41,  <Bowerbird <at> aol.com> wrote:
>
> at any rate, i suggest you stick around and see how the vote
> turns out.  i don't think it's necessary that either of us leave.

I think at least part of the issue is this mentality that seems to
imply that this is _your_ list.

Looking back over some of the archives, I see a fair number of threads
that you've started that either don't receive any replies, only
receive replies from you, or receive a variety of replies, but non
further from you. That's not the only pattern, but at least in my
mind, this contributes to the "rambling soliloquy". Rambling might be
strong, but it certainly has a feel of talking to yourself.

Further, the "it's easy to ignore an email" is a bit reaching. With a
web forum, users need to actively seek out topics to participate in.
With an email list, everything is delivered to you and "ignoring" a
topic requires specific action. If something is off topic it's
annoying, especially if the posts are frequent, lengthy, and from the
same source.

> how the vote turns out.

Who are you to call a vote anyway?
The list doesn't have moderators (that I'm aware of).
The only vote should be on your end. If people don't appreciate your
posts, and no one asks for more, find a new venue that is interested.

But, whatever. I'm usually content ignoring posts. My biggest
complaint is your lack of capitalization.

--

-- 
arno  s  hautala    /-|   arno <at> alum.wpi.edu

pgp b2c9d448
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Richard Caldwell | 5 Dec 2011 05:50
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Re: let's get this established, one way or the other, once and for all


> From: "Arno Hautala" <arno <at> alum.wpi.edu>

> Further, the "it's easy to ignore an email" is a bit reaching. With a
> web forum, users need to actively seek out topics to participate in.
> With an email list, everything is delivered to you and "ignoring" a
> topic requires specific action. If something is off topic it's
> annoying, especially if the posts are frequent, lengthy, and from the
> same source.

I've created an email filter to discard emails from people who make frequent, lengthy, posts that aren't of
interest to me.  It's not hard to do with most email clients.  I think that's the best course since this list is
not moderated and complaining about such posts is only going to generate even more lengthy and
uninteresting messages.

Just a suggestion.
Thomas Humiston | 7 Dec 2011 20:35

Re: let's get this established, one way or the other, once and for all

The list's moderator can be reached by following the link below each message. I believe the mod acted on a
request to remove a person who posted disruptive messages between May and November. If so, thanks, Mod!

On Dec 4, 2011, at 11:50 PM, Richard Caldwell wrote:

> I've created an email filter to discard emails

I set mine to flag them with color.

- TH
Aristotle Pagaltzis | 9 Dec 2011 15:52
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Re: let's get this established, one way or the other, once and for all

* Thomas Humiston <tom <at> jumpingrock.net> [2011-12-07 20:40]:
> * Richard Caldwell <nrc <at> offcamber.org> [2011-12-05 05:55]:
> > I've created an email filter to discard emails
>
> I set mine to flag them with color.

I have them automatically marked as read on receipt. And mailing list
mail goes into folders immediately, not to my inbox. Net effect is that
I don’t notice ignored mail unless someone else replies to it, and then
I can immediately see whom it was in reply to rather than having to
figure out why the thread is broken.
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Gmane