forest | 1 May 05:12 2004
Picon

Re: Planting a Trillion Trees


T wrote:

> Volunteers will Plant these Trees and get a free meal and a place to
> stay in return.
>
> forest:
> who will pay for or grow the food????
>
>  t:
> Workers will Plant these Trees and receive Credit in the form of Eden
> Hours.
>
> forest:
> will it run like a hive with worker bees, drone, queen, etc.??????....
>
>
> t:Homesteaders will Plant these Trees and watch them grow up all
> around us on our homesteads.
>
> forest:
> that sounds reasonable....
>
>  t:
> Paid Workers will also choose to work outdoors for the community in
> this and many other ways to take care of the environment. They will be
> paid in Mendo Greens.
>
> forest:
> where will the money come from, who will control the spending of
(Continue reading)

forest | 1 May 05:35 2004
Picon

Re: ecovillage and sustainability

on 4/28/04 11:14 AM, E.Christopher Mare at ecmare@... wrote:

> As far as "gossip/rumor/pettiness" - this is social activity that
> Critchfield ("Villages" - 1983) describes as ubiquitous but serving a
> purpose: maintaining the status quo of social cohesion to ensure
> sustainability. In the village, from what I understand, peer pressure
> replaces allopathic authority, such as police forces. The thought of
> banishment from the group is enough to keep most people behaving with
> civility.

i think that is a good point, peer group pressure outside the hierarchical
traditions imho is necessary to reach levels of individual and social
responsibility that will enable us to learn to let go of competition for
cooperation, a paradigm shift that is still unfolding.....
> 
> Of course, as a North American, I might just crack under such close
> scrutiny; I'm used to having so much privacy! That's OK, once I crack I
> can give up the notion of having a 'self' that needed to be protected.

methinks/feels that the ideal is a balance between idividualism and and
socialism....a balance of independance and closeness that maintains
uniqueness rather than pecking order clones of the "hive
consciousness"....thanks for sharing, aloha,

--

-- 
forest
forest@...
http://www.lavazone2.com/forest/

------------------------------------------------
(Continue reading)

earthsea | 1 May 18:19 2004
Picon

Re: ecovillage and sustainability

   > Problem People must be dealt with swiftly and decisively. We must all
be >more than happy to put these offenders out the door in a heartbeat
before any >real damage is done. - T  
<http://sustcomm.com>http://sustcomm.com    

Wow, how very old testament! Irreperable damage is done as soon as "we all"
put somebody out the door. Do you think the offender stops being a person
or falls instantly off the earth's edge? Not long before someone elses
offender come knocking on your door...or all the outcasts band together in
the forest or mountains between your community and the next & start
pirating.

In the new testament Jesus had a thing about casting the first stone.

Ecovillages are about healing relationships-between people and the land and
between people and people and between people and all our relations. Helping
people heal is expensive, just as healing land and growing food is
expensive. The present paradigm fails to the extent that we pretend food is
cheap and that putting people in a jail, mental institutions, ghettos, etc,
solves our social dilemmas.

Justice, yes, but tempered with compassion and hope. Bannishment is a
morally bankrupt and ultimately cynical solution.

At EarthSea have collectively asked people to leave, but with a loving
process that helped move the people towards something more positive for
them and left them feeling good enough to want to return for visits after a
while.

I've lived in regular towns where the people are quick to judge and
(Continue reading)

TIELLIS | 2 May 17:27 2004
Picon

Re: ecovillage and sustainability

Dear brothers and sisters,

The issues we are dealing with here are timeless, of course: inclusion vs. exclusion, individual autonomy vs. group solidarity, structure and hierarchy vs. consensus and flexibility; conformity to established behavioral norms vs. self-expression and spontaneity...So we should not be dismayed that we have not solved them, nor that different communities solve them in very different ways, with differing degrees of success.

Having not yet directly experienced life for an extended period in an "intentional community" or ecovillage, I lack expertise, and would be very presumptuous to claim any. But I clearly remember the gut feeling I had after spending a weekend at a very enlightened spiritual community (whose name I will omit) in the Pacific Northwest.  Although the people there were gracious and openhearted, full of interesting visionary ideas and smiles, by the end of the weekend I felt a bit stifled. I remember one evening when we were all cooperatively washing the dishes, everyone joined into one of their group anthems about creating an enlightened, peaceful, and ecologically sustainable future "day by day, stone by stone."  All I remember at the time was a sudden craving for my usual dishwashing music--the Rolling Stones, turned up loud. Needless to say, any such suggestion would have completely ostracized me from the rest of the happy, enlightened group...

Likewise, a year or two ago, I spent a week at a Buddhist retreat, and while it was, overall, a wonderful experience, I was similarly glad to leave--no longer obliged to recite the "five remembrances" before every meal, nor maintain a "noble silence" in the interstices of the various activities. While the mindfulness training was very good for me, I was relieved to return to "the world" where I could drink coffee (and beer or wine, if I liked),  speak freely and openly, and do as I wished.

So, needless to say, I am still quite hesitant about creating or joining my own ecovillage. On the other hand, I wholly endorse all the basic values underlying ecovillages--permaculture, sustainability, community. But I also need, in my life, the freedom to say exactly what I think (albeit tactfully), and the spice of wit, irony, and sarcasm.  These would be hard to come by in any "intentional community;" they would likely be seen as indicative of a bad attitude, and get me expelled.

And yet...and yet...the time is coming soon when our choice will be either to form or join ecovillages, or perish with the rest of the collapsing industrial world order, once petroleum peaks and declines, the global market collapses, and prices of everything start skyrocketing uncontrollably. We face either a Gaian future, or no future.

Can there be an ecovillage--urban, suburban, or rural--that is not "intentional" per se, but rather the evolving consequence of free, uninhibited people recognizing their common interest in sustainability and solidarity, complemented by respect for individual differences, and above all a sense of humor? Can it be a true Sangha--a community without boundaries, in which, like a Moebius band, those "outside" are also inside? A community that takes care of everyone, and abandons no one; that takes care of everything, and abandons nothing?

I certainly hope so...

Best wishes,

Tom
forest | 2 May 18:57 2004
Picon

Re: ecovillage and sustainability

 

TIELLIS-YDxpq3io04c@public.gmane.org wrote:

 
Can there be an ecovillage--urban, suburban, or rural--that is not "intentional" per se, but rather the evolving consequence of free, uninhibited people recognizing their common interest in sustainability and solidarity, complemented by respect for individual differences, and above all a sense of humor? Can it be a true Sangha--a community without boundaries, in which, like a Moebius band, those "outside" are also inside? A community that takes care of everyone, and abandons no one; that takes care of everything, and abandons nothing?

I certainly hope so...
 

imho the only way to create what you desire is to change and grow yerself and society at the same time...status quo cannot continue in your ideal fantasy methinks/feels....to live the old ways and still have an evolving society is a bit contradictory seems to me....the ideals you hope for imho will only come about thru a non-hierarchical consensus paradigm....this paradigm shift is a can of worms in terms of living by old traditions and behaviors such as sarcasm....but hey, i am all for humor and most of those other ideals....tho a lot of the rolling stone lyrics project limitations, i do like the instrumentational parts of many stones songs, we could rewrite some of those lyrics and play when washing dishes....i like the idea of a balance between social activities and hermit activities.....i agree with you old hierarchical traditions like many "intentional" communities operate under is a bit restrictive and clone like for independant americans like us, who can have a big brother super power protect us while while we luxuriate in our overconsuming american dream lifestyles and talk about sustainability all day on computer....but we can make it if we are open to change and not status quo old eco and family destructive habits....there is a new/old solution to all this pollution and it is called evolution.....slow but moving....aloha
--
forest
forest-iZjTC86gYAlqvOwRj+kr0A@public.gmane.org
http://www.lavazone2.com/forest
 
earthsea | 2 May 20:30 2004
Picon

Re: ecovillage and sustainability

> a true Sangha--a community without boundaries, in which, like a Moebius
>band, those "outside" are also inside? A community that takes care of
>everyone, and abandons no one; that takes care of everything, and abandons
>nothing?
>Tom

>I certainly hope so...

> imho the only way to create what you desire is to change and grow yerself
>and society at the same time...status quo cannot continue in your ideal
>fantasy methinks/feels....to live the old ways and still have an evolving
>society is a bit contradictory seems to me....the ideals you hope for imho
>will only come about thru a non-hierarchical consensus paradigm....this
>paradigm shift is a can of worms in terms of living by old traditions and
>behaviors such as sarcasm....but hey, i am all for humor and most of those
>other ideals....tho a lot of the rolling stone lyrics project limitations,
>i do like the instrumentational parts of many stones songs, we could
>rewrite some of those lyrics and play when washing dishes....i like the
>idea of a balance between social activities and hermit activities.....i
>agree with you old hierarchical traditions like many "intentional"
>communities operate under is a bit restrictive and clone like for
>independant americans like us, who can have a big brother super power
>protect us while while we luxuriate in our overconsuming american dream
>lifestyles and talk about sustainability all day on computer....but we can
>make it if we are open to change and not status quo old eco and family
>destructive habits....there is a new/old solution to all this pollution
>and it is called evolution.....slow but moving....aloha
>--
>forest

Tom & Forest-between you, the most beautiful, concise dialogue and likely
answers to a possible future have arisen. Skillfully done, Thank you.

davidc

EarthSea Shamanic Ecovillage    http://www.earthsea.ca  info@...
Box 95 Riverport                Civic Address: 180 Ovens Park Rd.
NS  B0J 2W0                     902 766-4129

------------------------------------------------
To subscribe or unsubscribe to ecobalance go to:
http://www.ecovillage.org/ecobalance
------------------------------------------------

Kit | 2 May 21:13 2004
Picon
Picon

Re: ecovillage and sustainability

I've only tuned in occasionally as I am in the middle of small property real
estate transactions myself.  Just my
two cents...but certainly our "american independence" will do us in if it is
not altered.

I just sent this to a friend....excuse the cut and paste as I am once again
running out the door.

This was in reply to a discussion on the probability of a mass reduction in
the Earth population.....  ...and my mention of Prout
(Progressive Utilization Theory)

>it can still be averted by raising collective consciousness.

I'm afraid I don't have much hope, even tho, I will still work in that
direction.  So far human nature(etc), and the masses' historical
adherence to it/acceptance of it, leaves me in this doubt.   I think there
will be much hardship before there is a change for the good.
I think that 'Amerika' will have to fall/fail.   Our "rugged individualism"
that so many like to hold up proudly as a badge will do use in.
It is a dated concept and one that ironically doesn't even exist in those
who so fiercely defend it.
There is not enough concept of society, environment and a greater good among
the, dare I say it, "ignorant masses" to save this
country.   That's OK there is still a whole world out there.   The danger
lies in that we have the largest arsenal on the planet and
those in power will not give up easily.....those in power still have the
"i-masses" convinced they are right.

Prout is the best concrete theory I've seen so far.   I like the Ecovillage
movement also....they seem to 'get it' or some of 'it' even it they
don't directly know Prout.

The first link below's a good start on Prout.  Imagine watchdogs and
whistleblowers having a 'government' job and elevated to
high status in society!  And, although I realize it is just semantics, I
don't like the use of the word "morality" (due to it's
over use and abuse by the Christian right wing)....in my mind, I've
substituted it with the word "ethics".....as I usually do in
non-Christian contexts.

http://www.proutworld.org/ideology/democracy/polsysp.htm

Also,  if ya make it thru that one....here's the first of five
principles...out of 16 principles.  If you haven't read the
above yet, the  "collective body" is considered thusly....." the political
power should be centralized in a board or Collective Body of Sadvipras. From
such centralization of power, no one has to fear, because spiritualists act
only in the interest of others." (Government is a serious matter; the
administration of society should not be a playground for the self-seeking
and corrupt people in society. It should be in the hands of what Sarkar
calls sadvipras - staunch morally conscious spiritualists.")
Also....."sadvipras are rare, but they are here today and will be in future.
Indeed Sarkar is optimistic that soon society, while reeling under the
engines of capitalist repression, will recognize the services, selfless love
and intellectual brilliance of the present day sadvipras, and then demand
that they be placed at the helm."

1st fundamental principle of Prout
No individual should be allowed to accumulate any physical wealth without
the clear permission or approval of the collective body.

http://www.proutworld.org/ideology/5fpp/1stfpp.htm

The first five.......

1st principle: Ceiling on accumulation of physical wealth
2nd principle: Maximum utilization and rational distribution of all
potentialities of the world
3rd principle: Maximum utilization of all individual and collective
potentialities
4th principle: Proper adjustment between all utilizations
5th principle: Methods of utilization to vary with changes in time, place
and person and be of progressive nature
http://www.proutworld.org/ideology/5fpp/5fpp.htm

It is a beautiful sunny cool day in Texas......rare low temps for
May.....it's wonderful!!

Take care....peace,love,joy.
Kit

----- Original Message -----

----- Original Message -----
From: "earthsea" <info@...>
To: <ecobalance@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ecobal]ecovillage and sustainability

> > a true Sangha--a community without boundaries, in which, like a Moebius
> >band, those "outside" are also inside? A community that takes care of
> >everyone, and abandons no one; that takes care of everything, and
abandons
> >nothing?
> >Tom
>
many "intentional"
> >communities operate under is a bit restrictive and clone like for
> >independant americans like us, who can have a big brother super power
> >protect us while while we luxuriate in our overconsuming american dream
> >lifestyles and talk about sustainability all day on computer....but we
can
> >make it if we are open to change and not status quo old eco and family
> >destructive habits....there is a new/old solution to all this pollution
> >and it is called evolution.....slow but moving....aloha
> >--
> >forest

------------------------------------------------
To subscribe or unsubscribe to ecobalance go to:
http://www.ecovillage.org/ecobalance
------------------------------------------------

TIELLIS | 3 May 02:39 2004
Picon

Re: ecovillage and sustainability

Dear friends,

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I am still wrestling with these issues myself, but I would baulk severely at anyone (or even any group consensus) telling me what music I can listen to, what books I can read, or when to laugh.

Here is what I envision as an ideal ecovillage, in brief.

I would call it "Dharma Gaia Practice Center" and its mission would be to model, develop, and share a synthesis of "vertical" (body-mind-spirit) and "horizontal" (self-community-ecology) healing practices as well, and it would be in continuous interaction with--not isolated from--the larger world,  offering classes, retreats, and workshops in both "vertical" healing arts (e.g. yoga, tai chi, qigong, massage, meditation, etc.) and "horizontal" healing arts (permaculture, ecological restoration, conflict resolution, environmental politics, etc.).

To establish clarity of common purpose, I would arrange to start every day with a recitation, silent meditation, and discussion of the following Principle, Precept, and Practice:

Principle: (Everyone joins palms as one person recites) "We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly."
                          --Martin Luther King, Jr.

Precept: (Everyone recites together) Let us strive to take care of everyone, and abandon no one. Let us strive to take care of everything, and abandon nothing. (after Lao Tzu)

Practice: (This could be done as a guided meditation, with the facilitator saying each word or phrase on the in and outbreath)

Breathe,  Observe,  Let Go.

Be well,  Do Good Work,  Keep in Touch. (with gratitude to Garrison Keillor)

Learn Gaia,   Teach Gaia,   Heal Gaia,   Create Gaia.

The following discussion, of course, would involve a shared interpretive exploration of this Dharma Gaia principle, precept, and practice, as it applies to our own daily lives, experiences, plans, and decisions.

This would be the only mandatory ritual for the Dharma Gaia sangha, though members and guests could feel free to share their own supplementary practices with the group (e.g. sufi dances and other solidarity-building group exercises).

The core community (no more than about 30 people max) would be governed by an elective governing board of, say, 5-7 members, who would serve staggered three-year terms to establish continuity of direction and policy. They in turn would employ a staff to allocate daily responsibilities to teams of members on a rotating basis. General membership meetings would be restricted to once a month, to air issues and make recommendations for consideration by the board.

Married members, or members with families, would live in separate houses (built sustainably according to a preapproved master plan but allowing for autonomy in particulars).  Single members might live in men's and women's dormitories, or some such arrangement. Evening meals, however, would be taken together by everyone.

Prospective members would have to visit and work with the community for a week, before being asked to join (or not).

Newly selected members would have a probationary period of, say, six months to a year, during which any member who is sufficiently irritated by his/her behavior would be empowered to ask him or her to leave, before the person is granted full membership, subject to board unanimity. But once the person is given full membership, his/her status would be guaranteed, except in the event of a crime or grave infraction.

My purpose behind the above policy would be to ensure that members, once certified, would not continually feel as if they were being judged by everyone else, and could feel free to express their own personalities without fear. And the community as a whole would have to embrace that member, and learn to deal with his or her particular quirks. It would therefore (ideally) retain adaptive flexibility and not take itself too seriously.

This, of course, is just a sketch of what I envision for a Dharma Gaia Center. I have no idea of where it would be, how to get it started, or anything else. But the Principle, Precept, and Practice are the cornerstone--the Sine Qua Non--if my conception.

Best wishes,

Tom
forest | 3 May 22:07 2004
Picon

Re: ecovillage and sustainability


E.Christopher Mare wrote:

> Maximizing beneficial connections amongst the humans is certainly
> permaculture but can we actually 'design' community? in recognition of the
> fact that living systems SELF-organize?

i prefer a balance between formal design organization and self-organization or
going with the flow or spontaneity...

--
forest
forest@...
http://www.lavazone2.com/forest

------------------------------------------------
To subscribe or unsubscribe to ecobalance go to:
http://www.ecovillage.org/ecobalance
------------------------------------------------

Poul Emil Tvermoes | 3 May 23:24 2004
Picon

Re: ecovillage and sustainability

Poul Tvermoes

Well this debate and discussion has been interesting to watch from the perspective of a working town pllanner and some one with a keen interest in eco villages. Perhaps two pionts with alternative communitarian settlments, to draw on Roseabeth Moss Kanters work, is that you can not build a social community from creating a physical community. The social organisation must come first. So inregards to the comments E.Christopher Mare wrote physical determinism from both the over 2000 commuitarian communities in the USA in the 19th century only a few survive today and the constant is a sytrong social organisation and belief system.

As to Permaculture for me, mush of it is a little too pat ie do a designers course and wala, you are a designer? It tries to some degree to establish the physical then the social, which is perhaps just what developers of land and housing I woirk with do. Perhaps in this instance is needs a number of additional principles grounded in tradiotional practise but which are outside of the current land & physical design perspective with all of its limitations.




3 / 39 Carlingford Street
Elsternwick
Melbourne Victoria
Australia 3162
04 3 888 6226
>From: forest <forest-iZjTC86gYAlqvOwRj+kr0A@public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: <ecobalance-2iSaJU4aUN7WFhc27bUgymD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
>To: ecobalance-2iSaJU4aUN7WFhc27bUgymD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [Ecobal]ecovillage and sustainability
>Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 00:37:53 +0000
>
>
>
>wrote:
>
> > Maximizing beneficial connections amongst the humans is certainly
> > permaculture but can we actually 'design' community? in recognition of the
> > fact that living systems SELF-organize?
>
>i prefer a balance between formal design organization and self-organization or
>going with the flow or spontaneity...
>
>--
>forest
>forest-iZjTC86gYAlqvOwRj+kr0A@public.gmane.org
>http://www.lavazone2.com/forest
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------
>To subscribe or unsubscribe to ecobalance go to:
>http://www.ecovillage.org/ecobalance
>------------------------------------------------

Get Hotmail on your mobile. Click here.

------------------------------------------------ To subscribe or unsubscribe to ecobalance go to: http://www.ecovillage.org/ecobalance ------------------------------------------------


Gmane