Next Meeting ...

The next meeting of the Experimental Rocket Propulsion Society will be
held this MONDAY evening at the Shop (Unit 23) starting at 8:00pm.

Items for meeting #302 (06 Jun 2005):

    - Admin Teams
        - Documentation
        - IT
        - Liaisons
        - Logistics
        - PAO
        - Treasurer
    - Development Teams
        - Chief Scientist
        - Flight Controls
        - Propellants/Sparger/FF
        - Regulatory Affairs
        - Safety
        - Testing
    - Project Status
        - Composites
        - GizmoCopter/POGO
        - SmartFlight
        - Spike

The address is:

	The Shop (Unit 23)
	473 Sapena Court, Suite 23
        Santa Clara CA 95054

Re: HTP Production

>For those working this project, can you give me an estimate of what it 
>would take to get you into full-scale production suitable for 
>experimenters?  I'm working on a project to reproduce the successful 
HTP 
>engines developed by the British in the early fifties (working with 
one 
>of the developers), so our consumption of 80-85% HTP would be fairly 
>substantial ( typical of a 5,000-8,000 lbf HTP bipropellant engine).
>
>The idea would be to provide funding for your production effort by 
>"pre-ordering" a supply of HTP under contract in exchange for being a 
>priority customer.  I have a funding source with a modest amount of 
>funds I believe sufficient for your needs.

Since I am located in Canada I can not supply you anyway.  The system I 
am considering building will be able to make between 10-25 liters of 80
-85% HTP a day from 35% stock.  This system just concentrates the 
peroxide so you need to start with a clean stock in the first place.  I 
project my material costs to be less than $2000 CDN.  However, this is 
just the tip of the iceberg for HTP production.  Even after years of 
trying I am still getting a cold shoulder the producers of peroxide and 
have to buy thru middle men.  This raises the cost of stock by a huge 
amount.  You also have to deal with zoning laws and local storage 
regulations.  Basicly, it can turn into a real mess - be careful or you 
may find you have an illegal operation that can result in big fines, 
maybe jail time.  Not trying to stop you but as far as I know no-one is 
building a simple machine that you just plug in, pour peroxide in and 
HTP comes out.  There use to be such a design but it no longer exists.

I have not come up with a design yet that I really like for the 

Re: HTP Production

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:
> Since I am located in Canada I can not supply you anyway...

I'm told that HTP, oddly enough, is *not* an export-controlled material. 
That could change without warning, of course.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry <at> spsystems.net

Re: HTP Production

> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:
>> Since I am located in Canada I can not supply you anyway...
>
> I'm told that HTP, oddly enough, is *not* an export-controlled material.
> That could change without warning, of course.

My concerns had more to do with the shipping regulations - the signage is
not a problem but the special drums which I do not have and the spill
control platten and the mounting system required all cost big bucks from
my personal point of view.  The costs are not major to a large
company/customer with multiple shipments, but to me they add a another big
cost to the final product if I only sell a drum or two.

Right now I process small amount of peroxide at home of experiments, with
the new still planned to be at the cabin, the same place I plan to fire
the rocket engines.  So presently I never ship peroxide over 35%, thus I
just put the container in the back of the truck and drive.

Additionally, since peroxide is used to make ATP, I am sure any shippment
of it across the border by someone who is not one of the known industrial
suppliers will get tagged and monitored the moment it crosses onto US
soil.

That can lead to some sticky problems if an agent is out to make a name
for himself, and rolls over the additional facts.  Plus there is alway the
very small but real danger that the buyer really is an idiot (notice idiot
not terrorist) who really wants to make lots of ATP.

Lots of ATP always ---> idiot.

Unknown history

http://www.negrospaceprogram.com/

--

-- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
........ Alex Fraser  N3DER .........
......... beatnic <at> comcast.net .......
[~]_>^</\-[~]_>^</\-[~]_>^</\-[~]_>^<

Blue Origin lifts the veil ... a bit

> From slashdot.org:

Science: Jeff Bezos's Space Company Reveals Some Secrets
Space
Posted by Hemos on Monday June 13,  <at> 10:45AM
from the getting-some-details dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Jeff Bezos's commercial spaceflight
company, Blue Origin, has kept its plans secret to better compete with
rivals such as Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic. But in order to
build its launch facility in West Texas, it has revealed some details
of its future operations: Blue Origin's Reusable Launch Vehicle (RLV)
will carry three or more passengers on suborbital, ballistic
trajectories to altitudes in excess of 325,000 feet above sea level.
It will launch vertically and land vertically, and will use hydrogen
peroxide and kerosene as propellants. It will operate autonomously
under control of on-board computers, with no ground control. Blue
Origin plans a maximum rate of 52 launches per year."

http://www.blueorigin.com/
http://www.blueorigin.com/web_description.htm

    Michael

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wallis   KF6SPF       (408) 396-9037        mwallis <at> wallis.com

John Carter McKnight: 
"We aren't going to get a spacefaring civilization by waiting around
 for the government to hand it to us."

NASA shakeup

 a recent Washington Post article described a shakeup at NASA. A number 
of top level administrators were purged.  It has something to do with 
going to Mars.  Anyone here of this?

--

-- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
........ Alex Fraser  N3DER .........
......... beatnic <at> comcast.net .......
[~]_>^</\-[~]_>^</\-[~]_>^</\-[~]_>^<

Re: NASA shakeup

On Tue 14.Jun'05 at  8:42:47 -0400, Alex Fraser wrote:

> a recent Washington Post article described a shakeup at NASA. A number 
> of top level administrators were purged.  It has something to do with 
> going to Mars.  Anyone here of this?
> 

This has to do with getting a new Administrator for NASA. Mike Griffin
is cleaning house, as he said he would.

    Michael

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wallis   KF6SPF       (408) 396-9037        mwallis <at> wallis.com

John Carter McKnight: 
"We aren't going to get a spacefaring civilization by waiting around
 for the government to hand it to us."

HTP High Test Hydrogen Peroxide experience

If I can be of assistance to your efforts to procure or make 90+% H2O2, please let me know.  I have obtained it
the past to make chemiluminescent lightsticks (glow sticks).  Here, water content reduces the
efficiency of light production substantially. In combination with other technologies, I have
increased the light output of lightsticks 18 fold to an efficiency of ~ 85%.   I successfully blended 90+%
H2O2 with dimethyl phthalate (DMP) to obtain an 8% H2O2 stock solution in DMP.  I own literature regarding
H2O2 purification and am aware of HTP uses in liquid pumped infrared high power lasers. In the past, I have
been in contact with the owners of the original rocket  "backpack" regarding the procurement of HTP, which
was provided to them in exchange for aerial demonstrations.      I expect to be procuring or making HTP in the
near future and I am actively exploring chemical methods of dewatering HTP and its diluted solutions.

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Re: HTP High Test Hydrogen Peroxide experience

I have contacted this person privately.

Dan