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Ivan Ndip | 1 Jul 2004 11:18
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Re: si-list Digest V4 #261

Hi,
you have to first develop an EM model of the via, together with the 
planes in HFSS. Use feeding lines to connect the via to the wave ports. 
Assign materials to the model, define the ports and set up the 
convergence criteria (e.g., maximum delta_S). At the end of the field 
simulation, remove the effects of the feeding lines through 
de-embedding. You can now use the resulting S-parameters to extract the 
electrical parameters (e.g., inductance, capacitance,...) of the via. 
One way of doing this is to use a circuit simulator (e.g., Serenade from 
Ansoft, ADS,...). Based on the extracted S-parameters, develop and 
equivalent circuit model of the via and through optimization, these 
electrical parameters can then be obtained.

Best regards,
Ivan Ndip

kusuma palusa wrote:

>Hello,
> 
>Can somebody please suggest how to extract inductance of a through via from HFSS
> 
>Thanks
>
>		
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Geoff Stokes | 2 Jul 2004 11:23

Re: si-list Digest V4 #261

I think this is helpful but might not be a complete discussion.  It seems to
assume that the wave modes on the connecting copper microstrips or
striplines are well-characterised.  The de-embedding normally uses the
simplest wave mode.  This will often not be representative, particularly in
a dense board layout situation.  I'm not exactly sure how to address it, but
I have noticed that the current flow around the via is quite complicated.
The impedance is quite sensitive to via position.  Ideally, rather than a
single via, the vias should be closely repeated in a region.  In some RF
applications, to get much lower effective inductance on a ground connection,
instead of a row of vias, the board is milled with a slot before plating.
Again, the positioning of the slot will be critical.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ivan Ndip [mailto:ndip@...]
> Sent: 01 July 2004 10:18
> To: kpalusa@...; si-list@...
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: si-list Digest V4 #261
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
> you have to first develop an EM model of the via, together with the=20
> planes in HFSS. Use feeding lines to connect the via to the=20
> wave ports.=20
> Assign materials to the model, define the ports and set up the=20
> convergence criteria (e.g., maximum delta_S). At the end of the field=20
> simulation, remove the effects of the feeding lines through=20
> de-embedding. You can now use the resulting S-parameters to=20
> extract the=20
> electrical parameters (e.g., inductance, capacitance,...) of the via.=20
> One way of doing this is to use a circuit simulator (e.g.,=20
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giancarlo guida | 2 Jul 2004 11:47
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Re: si-list Digest V4 #261

Hi folks,
I agrre with Geoff,
Surely to catch the complete behaviour
of the via also the pad and antipad should be included in the HFSS model
as well as a part of the area around the via.

Of course
the most exiciting part of the usage of the simulation
is the preparation of the model
What must be included and what can be neglected....
depends on the frequency range, effect need to be modeled....and so on.

The solution to put all the physicaol world in a model
does not seems a good engineering solution..:-)))

Giancarlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Stokes" <gstokes@...>
To: <si-list@...>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:23 AM
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: si-list Digest V4 #261

I think this is helpful but might not be a complete discussion.  It seems to
assume that the wave modes on the connecting copper microstrips or
striplines are well-characterised.  The de-embedding normally uses the
simplest wave mode.  This will often not be representative, particularly in
a dense board layout situation.  I'm not exactly sure how to address it, but
I have noticed that the current flow around the via is quite complicated.
The impedance is quite sensitive to via position.  Ideally, rather than a
single via, the vias should be closely repeated in a region.  In some RF
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Robert Tso | 3 Jul 2004 08:00
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Ansoft's SI-wave?

Anyone out there have any good (or bad) words to say
about Ansoft's SI-wave tool?  comments regarding
ease-of-use, accuracy, human interface, simulation
times, etc would be much appreciated.  Is there a
competitive tool at same or lower price?

Thanks!

		
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Doug Smith | 5 Jul 2004 07:03

Field coupling from an impulse event

Hi Everyone,

I just finished up my Technical Tidbit at http://emcesd.com for the 
month. The article discusses induction of voltages into circuits and 
system structures by magnetic and electric fields due to ESD events. 
Click on the picture at the bottom of the index page. There are now 
about 90 atricles, papers, and presentations on the site!

Abstract: ESD can have significant effects on electronic system 
operation. The effects of electric and magnetic field coupling is 
explored using E and H field probes. Conclusions are drawn on 
resulting system effects and the nature of the fields.

The article contains a brain teaser question at the end. Can you 
answer it?

If you would like to contribute a Technical Tidbit article, reply to 
this message with a proposed subject.

Doug
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     ___          _       Doug Smith
      \          / )      P.O. Box 1457
       =========          Los Gatos, CA 95031-1457
    _ / \     / \ _       TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799
  /  /\  \ ] /  /\  \     Mobile:  408-858-4528
|  q-----( )  |  o  |    Email:   doug@...
  \ _ /    ]    \ _ /     Website: http://www.dsmith.org
-------------------------------------------------------
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vishnu.jwalapuram | 5 Jul 2004 08:33

High Speed PCB design standards

Hi,
I am in hunt for buying some high speed PCB design standards.
I am ware of IPC standards. 
Do anyone know any other design standards that are specifically meant
for High Speed Board designers ?

 
Thanks,
Vishnu

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kirana na | 5 Jul 2004 09:54
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Need to buy standards book or manual

Hi All,

   I am in search of IPC standard books. Especially
IPC-782SM (SMD land pattern calculation) book. If
anybody knows about the address or contact information
where these books are availble, pls let me know at the
earliest.

Waiting for your valuable information.

Regards
Kirana 

	
		
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Geoff Stokes | 5 Jul 2004 11:14

Re: Need to buy standards book or manual

I think you will find it more easily if you look for IPC-SM-782 or IPC782.
Try Google.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: kirana na [mailto:kirana_na2001@...]
> Sent: 05 July 2004 08:54
> To: si-list@...
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Need to buy standards book or manual
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
>    I am in search of IPC standard books. Especially
> IPC-782SM (SMD land pattern calculation) book. If
> anybody knows about the address or contact information
> where these books are availble, pls let me know at the
> earliest.
> 
> Waiting for your valuable information.
> 
> Regards
> Kirana 
> 
> 
> 	
> 		
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Nilesh Kawadkar | 5 Jul 2004 12:23
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Re: High Speed PCB design standards

Hello Vishnu,

IPC-2141 is a standard developed by the institute for Interconnecting and Packaging Electronic
circuits.This is a standard which i think will be helpfull to you.

Other then this i have never come across any such standard for high speed PCB design.

There are a lot of application notes,whitepapers and documents available on internet.

Best Regards

Nilesh Kawadkar

vishnu.jwalapuram@... wrote:
Hi,
I am in hunt for buying some high speed PCB design standards.
I am ware of IPC standards. 
Do anyone know any other design standards that are specifically meant
for High Speed Board designers ?

Thanks,
Vishnu

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S.L.N.Murthy | 5 Jul 2004 15:05

Re: Need to buy standards book or manual

You can log in to www.ipc.org and you will find all the IPC Standards. These
are priced publications and can be ordered on-line from the IPC Store.

S.L.N.Murthy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "kirana na" <kirana_na2001@...>
To: <si-list@...>
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 1:24 PM
Subject: [SI-LIST] Need to buy standards book or manual

Hi All,

   I am in search of IPC standard books. Especially
IPC-782SM (SMD land pattern calculation) book. If
anybody knows about the address or contact information
where these books are availble, pls let me know at the
earliest.

Waiting for your valuable information.

Regards
Kirana

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Gmane