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ekraan | 1 Dec 2008 04:50
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[Skate] Re: Richmond oval public hours?

The unofficial word from the Richmond Olympic Oval Board of Trustees:
"...Public Sessions?  Damn! I knew we had forgotten about something!"

OR

"...in order to maintain the top quality of our air and ice, Public
sessions will commence on April 2010!"

From SLC, where the official word is we need snow... and soon!  I just
bought new skis!!!!

Eric Kraan.

--- In Speed_skating@..., Jan Roelof Falkena <janf <at> ...> wrote:
>
> Per
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/schaatsen/2670424/___Wereldrecords_in_Richmond_Oval___.html
the Olympic oval is opening officially on the 12th of December.  The
article tells about the state of the art equipment, the top quality of
air and ice, and the certainty of world records at the rink according
to Magnus Enfeldt.  My question though is on public opening hours,
anybody who knows (is Magnus still on this list)?
> 
> Maybe http://richmondoval.ca/ will provide more info in a number of
days/weeks?  Only displaying “coming soon” right now….
> 
> 
> 'Zeker wereldrecords in Richmond Oval' Van onze Telesportredactie
> 
> VANCOUVER -  Op 12 december wordt de Richmond Oval, het schaatsdecor
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Nils Lid Hjort | 1 Dec 2008 13:49
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[Skate] Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results


> 1000m Ladies - 30 November 2008
> 1 Olga Fatkulina    RUS 1.20,204     PR SB
> 2 Jekaterina Ajdova KAZ 1.20,207 NRJ PR SB
> 3 Hege Bøkko        NOR 1.20,79	

Bah. 

I know, I'm in the loser crowd, the ISU has 
more power than me and my little club, and my 
First of May slogans will not quite manage to
change the world. But I continue to find it
ridiculous and psychiatrically subversive
to insist in this way on separating 
Olga (gold!) and Yekaterina (silver!) when
these two young splendid girls for all practical 
purposes have skated exactly equally fast: 
one minute, twenty seconds, and twenty hundredths 
of a second. Measuring the immeasurable is the 
business of novelists and theologians and 
married couples, not the ISU with their newfangled 
chronometers that are force-sold upon us to keep 
us all inside the commercial and culture imperialist
protosphere pocket of NATO, I'm sure.

Also, as Yekaterina's grandfather has to argue
at work, when his comrades congratulate him
on his granddaughter's new national junior record
of 1.20.20 on the 1000 metres (such a lovely 
and memorable result, "one twenty twenty",
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Øivind Øiseth | 1 Dec 2008 16:02
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[Skate] Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results

--- In Speed_skating@..., "Nils Lid Hjort" <nils <at> ...> 
wrote:
>
> 
> > 1000m Ladies - 30 November 2008
> > 1 Olga Fatkulina    RUS 1.20,204     PR SB
> > 2 Jekaterina Ajdova KAZ 1.20,207 NRJ PR SB
> > 3 Hege Bøkko        NOR 1.20,79	
> 
> Bah. 
> 
> I know, I'm in the loser crowd, the ISU has 
> more power than me and my little club, and my 
> First of May slogans will not quite manage to
> change the world. But I continue to find it
> ridiculous and psychiatrically subversive
> to insist in this way on separating 
> Olga (gold!) and Yekaterina (silver!) when
> these two young splendid girls for all practical 
> purposes have skated exactly equally fast: 
> one minute, twenty seconds, and twenty hundredths 
> of a second. Measuring the immeasurable is the 
> business of novelists and theologians and 
> married couples, not the ISU with their newfangled 
> chronometers that are force-sold upon us to keep 
> us all inside the commercial and culture imperialist
> protosphere pocket of NATO, I'm sure.
> 
> Also, as Yekaterina's grandfather has to argue
> at work, when his comrades congratulate him
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Dirk Broer | 1 Dec 2008 23:50
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Re: [Skate] Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results

Hi Nils,

I agree (for what it's worth):
As long as an inner lane starting skater hears the starting signal
50/1000 of a second later than the outer lane starting starter (by
virtue of the speed of sound) there is absolutely no point in
discriminating end times to 1/1000 of a second

Dirk
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Nils Lid Hjort" <nils@...>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:49 PM
To: <Speed_skating@...>
Subject: [Skate] Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results

>
>> 1000m Ladies - 30 November 2008
>> 1 Olga Fatkulina    RUS 1.20,204     PR SB
>> 2 Jekaterina Ajdova KAZ 1.20,207 NRJ PR SB
>> 3 Hege Bøkko        NOR 1.20,79
>
> Bah.
>
> I know, I'm in the loser crowd, the ISU has
> more power than me and my little club, and my
> First of May slogans will not quite manage to
> change the world. But I continue to find it
> ridiculous and psychiatrically subversive
> to insist in this way on separating
> Olga (gold!) and Yekaterina (silver!) when
(Continue reading)

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Nils Lid Hjort | 2 Dec 2008 00:05
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[Skate] Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results


Thanks, Dirk -- of course I will listen 
attentively to those who have the strong,
educated, sports-philosophical, religious 
conviction that we SHOULD strive as hard 
as humanly possible to distinguish between 
two skaters with identical results down to
0.005 of a second ... but then speak up.
I think most people, and most speedskating
enthusiasts, are against the 0.0001 business,
for various already indicated reasons 
(including tradition -- we are *fully used to*
skating sharing a 2nd place or a 5th place
etc., with identical results, and nobody 
has cried to UN or other bodies for help 
to discriminate between the tied athletes). 

So let's simply & quietly abolish the full
thing, dear ISU, before the 2010 Olympics.
We do not want another Thomas Wassberg
vs Juha Mieto Olymic 1980 case: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-country_skiing_at_the_1980_Winter_Olympics
The 0.01 difference between a gold and silver,
after skiing for 41 minutes in the forest,
and losing different amounts of time in the
inevitable process of passing other skiers
etc. ("then a Greek or a Turk in front of
me didn't comprehend my shout for `loeype!'
and I had to vade around him"), etc., made
everyone including the FIS bosses that it
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ekraan | 2 Dec 2008 05:39
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[Skate] Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results

Could we get a tie breaker system in place?   If the skaters tie to
the .01's then we should break the tie by the faster opener between
the two!!  ;)  

It could make for people getting off the line a little more
interesting!  and it is as fair as checking for .001's

Just a thought!

From SLC, home of of the fastest ice and the Salt City Derby Girls!
http://www.saltcityderbygirls.com/
Eric Kraan  (AKA.. CoachIno)

--- In Speed_skating@..., "Nils Lid Hjort" <nils <at> ...> wrote:
>
> 
> Thanks, Dirk -- of course I will listen 
> attentively to those who have the strong,
> educated, sports-philosophical, religious 
> conviction that we SHOULD strive as hard 
> as humanly possible to distinguish between 
> two skaters with identical results down to
> 0.005 of a second ... but then speak up.
> I think most people, and most speedskating
> enthusiasts, are against the 0.0001 business,
> for various already indicated reasons 
> (including tradition -- we are *fully used to*
> skating sharing a 2nd place or a 5th place
> etc., with identical results, and nobody 
> has cried to UN or other bodies for help
(Continue reading)

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Nils Lid Hjort | 2 Dec 2008 10:13
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[Skate] Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results

Well, Eric ... my heart is typically with 
the athlete who opens slow but is able to
finish tougher. So I'm afraid I'll have to
vote against you, when we meet as delegates
to the ISU meeting next time: to break ties,
I'll reward the skater with slowest opener,
slowest & most dimwitted reaction time, etc.

My sport heart's exception to the rule above
is Filbert Bayi, the Tanzanian middle distance
runner -- whose race tactics consisted in
sprinting away from the start and hoping
to last (often dying near the end, and then
being swallowed and passed by the finish-sprinting 
pack, always a spectacular sight). I think 
he's almost alone in middle distance running 
who used such a strategy. 

So let's not forget the second of "liberté, 
égalité, fraternité": let equal skaters have
equal results.

NLH 

> Could we get a tie breaker system in place?   If the skaters tie to
> the .01's then we should break the tie by the faster opener between
> the two!!  ;)  
> 
> It could make for people getting off the line a little more
> interesting!  and it is as fair as checking for .001's
(Continue reading)

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T.B.Hansen | 2 Dec 2008 17:13
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[Skate] Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results

Nils Lid Hjort:

> My sport heart's exception to the rule above
> is Filbert Bayi, the Tanzanian middle distance
> runner

Agreed. Filbert was a 'speed skater' in a world of 'pack-stylers' -- I think every good 
Norwegian should love him.

So much said:

You must stop monitoring those Stalinist discussion groups! It obviously do something to 
your head. You might end up like the Great Light of Norwegian literature, Dag Solstad: 
Calling anyone who disagree with you a Fascist or a Liberal.

Ignoring your marxist-leninist-maoist rhetorics, of course I agree with you. The ISU has 
obviously forgot that this is the 21th Century and plunged into two of the 20th Century's 
greatest follies (besides Stalinism):

That any technological possibility must be utilized, no matter the consequenses, and that 
accurate measurement has a value of it's own, even if what's measured is shere chanse or 
completely irrelevant.

-------------
T.B.Hansen

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
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ekraan | 2 Dec 2008 19:36
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[Skate] Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results

In my heart I have to agree with you.  Still, I think that this method
rewards someone for a true measurable skating performance, instead of
rewarding/punishing in what I feel is a coin toss up.

Anyway, the time at the end of the race should be the final
determination, but if the ISU is so afraid of ties, then we have to
start looking at other measures or start making more medals!

From SLC, where it is still sunny and dry.
Eric Kraan.

--- In Speed_skating@..., "Nils Lid Hjort" <nils <at> ...> wrote:
>
> Well, Eric ... my heart is typically with 
> the athlete who opens slow but is able to
> finish tougher. So I'm afraid I'll have to
> vote against you, when we meet as delegates
> to the ISU meeting next time: to break ties,
> I'll reward the skater with slowest opener,
> slowest & most dimwitted reaction time, etc.
> 
> My sport heart's exception to the rule above
> is Filbert Bayi, the Tanzanian middle distance
> runner -- whose race tactics consisted in
> sprinting away from the start and hoping
> to last (often dying near the end, and then
> being swallowed and passed by the finish-sprinting 
> pack, always a spectacular sight). I think 
> he's almost alone in middle distance running 
> who used such a strategy.
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Lars Finsen | 2 Dec 2008 22:55
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[Skate] Tiebreaking (was: Re: 1st Junior World Cup, Inzell, day 2 results)


Den 2. des. 2008 kl. 05.39 skreiv ekraan:
> Could we get a tie breaker system in place? If the skaters tie to
> the .01's then we should break the tie by the faster opener between
> the two!! ;)
>

Do we need a tie-breaker? As we know all, except for some ISU-bobos,  
checking for thousandths is as arbitrary as tossing a coin. In my  
opinion, the only satisfactory tiebreaker is a reskate. I think the  
tied skaters should be given the choice between sharing the points or  
prize money or whatever, or reskating for them. At least this is  
spectator-friendly. It may mess up schedules a bit, though. But such  
deciding races will usually be taken in the shorter distances, I  
imagine.

Den 2. des. 2008 kl. 17.13 skreiv T.B.Hansen:
> Ignoring your marxist-leninist-maoist rhetorics, of course I agree  
> with you. The ISU has obviously forgot that this is the 21th  
> Century and plunged into two of the 20th Century's greatest follies  
> (besides Stalinism):
>

Isn't this a modernist way of viewing things? You mean, we have  
progressed since the 20th century in this respect?

LEF

------------------------------------
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Gmane