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Patrick Seltsam | 1 Sep 2008 07:38

RE: [Skate] Where have all the country-matches gone?

I think the problem with the country match is that while skaters from two nations race, the rest of the worlds
skaters hang around and do nothing.

How about this, though, for an interesting competition - a tournament of country matches, all at one site,
over a two week period?

From: Speed_skating@...
[mailto:Speed_skating@...] On Behalf Of Lars Finsen
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 2:55 PM
To: Speed_skating@...
Subject: Re: [Skate] Where have all the country-matches gone?

Den 31. aug. 2008 kl. 22.29 skreiv Øyvind Erstad:
> So where have all the country-matches in speedskating disappeared?
>

Well, basically (I'm the chairman of the Norwegian Well-Basically
Club), they went away when people stopped watching them.

There are still a lot of country-matches on junior, neo-senior level
etc. But since there is only one superpower in speedskating these
days, I guess there's not many enough that feel the senior country-
matches are really needed. Besides, we have the team pursuit nowadays.

> And is there maybe a good idea to bring some of them back and let
> them "overrun" some of the more or less uninteresting WC-meets? (I
> believe the WC "overrun" the country-matches some years ago...)
>

I would welcome it. But that doesn't help much. Rather more I would
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Dirk Broer | 1 Sep 2008 10:30
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RE: [Skate] Where have all the country-matches gone?

Pat wrote: 
" I think the problem with the country match is that while skaters from two nations race, the rest of the
worlds skaters hang around and do nothing."

That has never been a problem in the past, various country matches could took place in the same weekend , on
different rinks.
The CAN-AM meet can be skated in the same weekend as Netherlands-Norway/Sweden/Finland,
Russia-Germany, Poland-Hungary-Czechia, Japan-China-Korea, etc. You might even arrange WC meets at
yet other rinks at the same time, nobody says a national team has to consist of the best skaters of a
countryDirk Broer e-mail: Dirk_P_Broer@... 

> To: Speed_skating@...> From:
pseltsam@...> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 01:38:53 -0400> Subject:
RE: [Skate] Where have all the country-matches gone?> > I think the problem with the country match is that
while skaters from two nations race, the rest of the worlds skaters hang around and do nothing.> > How about
this, though, for an interesting competition - a tournament of country matches, all at one site, over a two
week period?> > From: Speed_skating@...
[mailto:Speed_skating <at> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lars Finsen> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 2:55
PM> To: Speed_skating@...> Subject: Re: [Skate] Where have
all the country-matches gone?> > > Den 31. aug. 2008 kl. 22.29 skreiv Øyvind Erstad:> > So where have all
the country-matches in speedskating disappeared?> >> > Well, basically (I'm the chairman of the
Norwegian Well-Basically> Club), they went away when people stopped watching them.> > There are still a
lot of country-matches on junior, neo-senior level> etc. But since there is only one superpower in
speedskating these> days, I guess there's not many enough that feel the senior country-> matches are
really needed. Besides, we have the team pursuit nowadays.> > > And is there maybe a good idea to bring some
of them back and let> > them "overrun" some of the more or less uninteresting WC-meets? (I> > believe the WC
"overrun" the country-matches some years ago...)> >> > I would welcome it. But that doesn't help much.
Rather more I would> welcome some more allround meets. 2005 was a great season for Norway> in many ways. For
example because of the results. But also because we> had a series of allround meets in the Norgescup. It
lasted only for> that season. I wonder how it came to be, and why they stopped it. Can> it happen again?> > LEF
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Nils Lid Hjort | 2 Sep 2008 18:03
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[Skate] re re Where have all the country-matches gone?


> There are still a lot of country-matches on junior, neo-senior level  
> etc. But since there is only one superpower in speedskating these  
> days, 

Canada?

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Patrick Seltsam | 2 Sep 2008 19:15

RE: [Skate] re re Where have all the country-matches gone?

Who says the team concept has to be defined by nationality?  Why not have team matches within the Netherlands
between the "pro" organizations?

From: Speed_skating@...
[mailto:Speed_skating@...] On Behalf Of Nils Lid Hjort
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:03 AM
To: Speed_skating@...
Subject: [Skate] re re Where have all the country-matches gone?

> There are still a lot of country-matches on junior, neo-senior level
> etc. But since there is only one superpower in speedskating these
> days,

Canada?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Marnix Koolhaas | 2 Sep 2008 20:50
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RE: [Skate] re re Where have all the country-matches gone?

For june/july 2009 two countrymatches between Argentina and Chile will be scheduled, one in Ushuaia and
one in Punta Arenas. But more countries are welcome to join!
Marnix

Van: Speed_skating@...
[mailto:Speed_skating@...] Namens Patrick Seltsam
Verzonden: dinsdag 2 september 2008 19:15
Aan: Speed_skating@...
Onderwerp: RE: [Skate] re re Where have all the country-matches gone?

Who says the team concept has to be defined by nationality? Why not have team matches within the Netherlands
between the "pro" organizations?

From:
Speed_skating@...<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:Speed_skating@...<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf Of Nils Lid Hjort
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:03 AM
To: Speed_skating@...<mailto:Speed_skating%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Skate] re re Where have all the country-matches gone?

> There are still a lot of country-matches on junior, neo-senior level
> etc. But since there is only one superpower in speedskating these
> days,

Canada?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Marnix Koolhaas | 3 Sep 2008 02:15
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[Skate] New supertrack?

from:
http://www.emaar.com/morocco/

Having already committed substantial investment to the Moroccan real estate market the world’s
largest and unarguably most innovative property development company Emaar Properties PJSC have
announced plans to build the very first golf and ski resort in Morocco in a week when Morocco hit the
headlines as being one of the most exciting emerging property investment hotspots today.
The announcement from UAE based Emaar was made this week when the company signed a Memorandum of
Understanding with the King of Morocco and further highlights the massive wealth of opportunity that is
coming into existence for property investors in Morocco.

Emaar’s new ski and golf property development will be called Oukaimeden and located close to the resort
of the same name. The name means ‘the valley of four winds’ and has been chosen by Emaar to symbolise the
fact that the development will be a recreational destination for all four seasons. To be situated in the
Atlas Mountains (pictured) Oukaimeden will combine recreation, entertainment, relaxation and real
estate residences in inimitable Emaar style and be the very first ski and golfing resort in the Middle East
and Africa.
The development will feature a range of commercial property ventures from retail, office and
entertainment space as well as 2,000 hotel rooms, with a range of residential real estate options for
investors and home seekers. The design of the development has been inspired by the traditional Berber
design with which the Atlas Mountain region of Morocco is synonymous. The range of recreational pursuits
available to the resort’s residents and guests will be broad with the absolute emphasis on Oukaimeden
being a year round hub of entertainment and activity.

Denomination : Oukaimeden Atlas ski and golf (Altitude 2700 m.)
Situation : 70 km in the south-east of Marrakech
Surface : 600 hectares
Project : Golf Properties, Trade, Cultural activities, Ski resort, TRACKS OF ICE-SKATING and golf course
18 holes
Realization : NC
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Jean-François Lemonde | 3 Sep 2008 03:57
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RE: [Skate] re re Where have all the country-matches gone?

Maybe, but aren't we talking about "Country"-matches!?!

And there could be more than 2 country per country match, why not a CAN-USA-GER-NED-RUS-JAP  country match?

If we want more countries to take part, there could be various groups with promotions and relegation from
one year to another.  The 6th place finisher in group A is relegated to group B the next year and the winner of
group B is promoted to group A the next year.  The number of groups would be determined by the number of
nations interested in it.

JF

--- En date de : Mar 2.9.08, Patrick Seltsam <pseltsam@...> a écrit :

> De: Patrick Seltsam <pseltsam@...>
> Objet: RE: [Skate] re re Where have all the country-matches gone?
> À: "Speed_skating@..." <Speed_skating@...>
> Date: Mardi 2 Septembre 2008, 18h15
> Who says the team concept has to be defined by nationality? 
> Why not have team matches within the Netherlands between the
> "pro" organizations?
> 
> From: Speed_skating@...
> [mailto:Speed_skating@...] On Behalf Of Nils Lid
> Hjort
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:03 AM
> To: Speed_skating@...
> Subject: [Skate] re re Where have all the country-matches
> gone?
> 
>
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Dirk Broer | 3 Sep 2008 23:59
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Re: [Skate] New supertrack?

2700m sounds a bit like Keystone, remember the ladies Wch 1977,
when the effort asked for a mere 3000m forced many of them to take oxygen 
afterwards
A 10k might be killing in more than one way

> Denomination : Oukaimeden Atlas ski and golf (Altitude 2700 m.)
> Situation : 70 km in the south-east of Marrakech
> Surface : 600 hectares
> Project : Golf Properties, Trade, Cultural activities, Ski resort, TRACKS 
> OF ICE-SKATING and golf course 18 holes
> Realization : NC
> Investment : 12,6 billion DH distributed between Emaar and other investors
>
> So Oukaimeden will go for Winter Olympics 2018??
>
> Interesting - we have lots of potential Maroccan speed-skaters allready 
> here to prepare!
> Marnix
>

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Marnix Koolhaas | 4 Sep 2008 01:25
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RE: [Skate] New supertrack?


my main question is: what will happen if they really build a 400m-indooroval over there and do upgrade all
the facilities to 5 stars as the investors seem to be aiming? I think such a rink will smash at least from 500
up to 3000 meters all SLC or Calgary WR's. And thus becoming very popular as probably the cheapest (Nearby
Marakech (70 km) is a very cheap and popular fly-destination from anywhere in Europe)  and fastest rink to
train for all European top and sub-top skaters (as chasing PB's seems to be a big thing for many
"recreational" skaters and seniors nowadays)  - and a perfect spot to gain oxygen before big races. So how
can we ask this Saudi-multibillion-investors if they realize also the financial attractivity of
including a standard longtrack-oval in their icerink-plans?

Marnix

ps was it really that bad in Keystone 77? But remember women-skating has made a big development since -
especially on longer distances - I can imagine Sablikova do a 10k in 12.30 at Oukaimeden!

________________________________________
Van: Speed_skating@...
[Speed_skating@...] namens Dirk Broer [Dirk_P_Broer@...]
Verzonden: woensdag 3 september 2008 23:59
Aan: Speed_skating@...
Onderwerp: Re: [Skate] New supertrack?

2700m sounds a bit like Keystone, remember the ladies Wch 1977,
when the effort asked for a mere 3000m forced many of them to take oxygen
afterwards
A 10k might be killing in more than one way

> Denomination : Oukaimeden Atlas ski and golf (Altitude 2700 m.)
> Situation : 70 km in the south-east of Marrakech
> Surface : 600 hectares
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Lars Finsen | 4 Sep 2008 15:09
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Re: [Skate] The reconstructed championships: VM Karuizawa 1963.

Hi, sorry that I have been so long-winded about this, but it's been  
such a lot of work, as the championship has been described so avidly  
by so many people. But here goes:

As the skaters were rising from their beds to prepare for the last  
day of the World Championship at Karuizawa on February 24, 1963, the  
Sun rose above the distant horizon, at 6:26 according to my home-made  
Karuizawa almanac, and the new Moon, having changed its phase during  
the night, was hardly visible at all. For the skaters early rising  
was required, as the races were going to start at 11, a precaution  
against the strong afternoon sun. Now, these worries seemed  
groundless - as the skaters went out for the morning jog at 7, it was  
cloudy outside and a sour wind, biting at -8 degrees centigrade. But  
the ice was still fast, and a series of pb was expected, not to  
mention other records.

Skoblikova already had set the only world record left available to  
her by Voronina, and yesterday, Jonny Nilsson had set his famous  
7.34,3, giving the Norwegians something to ponder. He looks like a  
giant on the picture in his book surrounded by Japanese officials  
zeroing in to congratulate him.

In the Norwegian camp, worried brains had been busy with maths after  
yesterday's 5000 m. Apparently, only Moe and Kuppern were left to be  
considered for the overall title. Apart from Jonny, the Chinese Wang  
was close to the top as well, but the Norwegians didn't think his  
10000 m was good enough. Jonny however seemed top favourite now, and  
the only way to take the championship away from him was to give him a  
good beating in the 1500 m. But how much of a difference could they  
build up on him in his present form? Moe thought 30 seconds would
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