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Øyvind Erstad | 1 Nov 2006 01:46
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Re: [Skate] Re: team pursuit quiz?

T.B.Hansen,
you are probabIy right in much of your argumentation in your writing below, but I`m still not quite
convinced that the supersprint deserve their world records more than the team pursuit does. Maybe in
outdoor lowland skating, but not elsewhere. And when you wrote 100m races have been arranged for ages I`m
afraid I can`t follow you anymore. Is it the passing times in 500m you talking about? That`s simply
something else, isn`t it? And if you take a look at some of the more serious skating sites - ISU, Evert
Stenlund, sportstatistikken.nl or even your own - you might get a hard time finding (sic) the development
of world records for this activity which have been arranged "for ages". But at least in the ISU site (and
what can be more official?) you will find the development of the team pursuit world records.(see
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-164270-181487-86559-0-file,00.pdf
) As we all know the history is quite short and goes only back to 1997, where 8 laps was the main junior
pursuit, but who knows; maybe some of the "missing" outdoor lowland records is hiding here? 
(Some of us might call supersprint and team pursuit a choice between pest and cholera, and in that picture I
certainly prefer team pursuit, as I see as much more sophisticated and interesting than supersprint.)

regards øyvind erstad

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: T.B.Hansen 
  To: Speed_skating@... 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:15 PM
  Subject: [Skate] Re: team pursuit quiz?

  Øyvind Erstad:

  > OK, I found most of the team pursuit world records, but very hard to find the outdoor 
  lowland records, both men and ladies, senior as well as junior.

  As the team pursuit in its current format is almost exclusively connected to international 
  championships and world cup, and these kinds of events the last years have been
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Matthias Opatz | 1 Nov 2006 10:27
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[Skate] desg.de is back

FYI: desg.de is back.

Matthias 

-- 
For sources to get the german Speedskating book from abroad see
       http://www.lotok.de/e/alternate-book-order.htm
DESG related speedskating news: http://www.desg.de/akt_news.php
Results from all over the world: http://www.desg.de/results.php

 
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T.B.Hansen | 1 Nov 2006 10:33
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[Skate] Re: Skating nostalgia and format changes

Patrick Seltsam:

> Just trust me...learn the dynamics of the game and you will enjoy it
> immensely.

It's a matter of time, actually. I can't see how I should fit in another favourite sport in my 
schedule...

> TV Ratings are an over-rated way to asses the value of and interest in a
> particular sport.

The number of viewers (which is always a guess anyway) is always considered against 
who's watching. Generally, viewers that's supposed to be more willing to cash out are 
given preference. I don't know who's supposed to watch basball (though I know it's a 
favourite sport among American and wanna-be American intellectuals), but the viewer 
groups usually preferd is young people, women and wealthy enthusiasts (like golfers).

Traditions (as a sign of potential) might, or might not, be considered a part of the picture.

In small and less commercialized communities like those of Scandinavia, the collective 
preferences of dominating groups within media, and even personal preferences among 
profiled media personalities, might be given more weight than the pure economical factors 
though. In Norway (to use my nearest example) which sports get the best TV coverange  
seems to reflect the personal taste of a handful of senior NRK reporters...

----------
T.B.Hansen

 
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T.B.Hansen | 1 Nov 2006 10:54
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[Skate] Re: team pursuit quiz?

Øyvind Erstad:

> when you wrote 100m races have been arranged for ages I`m afraid I can`t follow you 
> anymore. Is it the passing times in 500m you talking about?

Of course those might be considered. As far as I know, there's no rule in speed skating 
saying that passing times can't be registered as 'race results' – it's just that a certain event 
have to be put on the schedule if official records are to be registered.

But what I'm talking about is real 'supersprint' events. Such events were advocated by 
Norwegian coach Thormod Moum (coach of Per Ivar Moe, Erhard Keller and Per Bjørang, and 
for many years coaching the Norwegian national sprint team) at least from the 1970's. In the 
early 80's different 'super sprint' formats were tried out, even in country matches. At least in 
the Netherlands 'super sprint' seemed to survive the initial experimental faze, and such 
meets have been organized regularely. While a straight race like the 100 m hardly was a part 
of Scandinavian 'super sprint' experiments, in the Netherland it might have been associated 
with traditonal formats of speed skating.

----------
T.B.Hansen

 
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Alwin Kruijt Spanjer | 1 Nov 2006 11:29
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Re: [Skate] desg.de is back

Excelent! I really missed her.

Alwin

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Irene Postma | 1 Nov 2006 11:40
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Re: [Skate] Re: team pursuit quiz?

There is another good reason why supersprint deserves its world records more
than the team pursuit. A 100m is always a 100m. The team pursuit is a fixed
amount of laps, but as they are skated on the inside of the rink, the
distances differ with the measurements of the rink.
-- 
 Irene P.

 o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o
 o.o.o.o.o.o.o.MAY.GOD.BLESS.YOU.o.o.o.o.o.o.o
 o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o

Op 01-11-2006 01:46, schreef Øyvind Erstad <oe-ers@...>:

> T.B.Hansen,
> you are probabIy right in much of your argumentation in your writing below,
> but I`m still not quite convinced that the supersprint deserve their world
> records more than the team pursuit does. Maybe in outdoor lowland skating, but
> not elsewhere. And when you wrote 100m races have been arranged for ages I`m

> 

 
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Dirk Broer | 1 Nov 2006 21:42
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Re: [Skate] Re: team pursuit quiz?

Hi øyvind,

Though I have kind of specialized in women's speed skating results,
I can asure you that 100m races for women were held even before
WW2. (first known women's result was as early as januari the 16th, 1922)

I do not think that the situation for men will be any different.
So indeed as Terje says 100m races "for ages", while the present
team persuit still has no reasonably fixed format.
Not in meters, not in laps and not in the number of participants.
Not even in the number of times you have to skate in order to win
the event.

Dirk Broer
Definitely preferring supersprint above team persuit

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Øyvind Erstad" <oe-ers@...>
To: "skøyter" <Speed_skating@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: team pursuit quiz?

T.B.Hansen,
you are probabIy right in much of your argumentation in your writing below, 
but I`m still not quite convinced that the supersprint deserve their world 
records more than the team pursuit does. Maybe in outdoor lowland skating, 
but not elsewhere. And when you wrote 100m races have been arranged for ages 
I`m afraid I can`t follow you anymore. Is it the passing times in 500m you 
talking about? That`s simply something else, isn`t it? And if you take a 
look at some of the more serious skating sites - ISU, Evert Stenlund,
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Øyvind Erstad | 2 Nov 2006 03:01
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Re: [Skate] Re: team pursuit quiz?

OK, nice discussion and I know when I`m beaten. But still I prefer the team
pursuit...

regards øyvind erstad

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dirk Broer" <Dirk_P_Broer@...>
To: <Speed_skating@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: team pursuit quiz?

> Hi øyvind,
>
> Though I have kind of specialized in women's speed skating results,
> I can asure you that 100m races for women were held even before
> WW2. (first known women's result was as early as januari the 16th, 1922)
>
> I do not think that the situation for men will be any different.
> So indeed as Terje says 100m races "for ages", while the present
> team persuit still has no reasonably fixed format.
> Not in meters, not in laps and not in the number of participants.
> Not even in the number of times you have to skate in order to win
> the event.
>
> Dirk Broer
> Definitely preferring supersprint above team persuit
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Øyvind Erstad" <oe-ers@...>
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Robert Koorneef | 2 Nov 2006 18:22
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[Skate] desg down again...

it was only a small revival until now. Desg has lost contact with the server again today...??

Robert K.

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Tore Jan Narvestad | 2 Nov 2006 14:51
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[Skate] Assen, anyone?

For once I will have the opportunity of watching a Dutch skating 
championship, as I will be in Assen on Saturday and Sunday.

It would be fun if I could get the chance to meet some of our Dutch 
listmembers as well - a few of you I've met over the years and would enjoy 
meeting again, while others I have never had the pleasure of meeting, 
although we have communicated "for years". 

So will any of you be in Assen?
(Private replies are OK) 

best regards
Tore Jan Narvestad 

 
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