headers
Domas Mituzas | 1 Sep 2009 01:09
Picon

Re: how to chang {{SITENAME}}

Hello,
>
> While I appreciate Domas' search for more performance,

Please, I'm not looking for "more performance" here, we've been  
removing those tokens for few years already ;-)

> There is also a
> constant flow of new localised messages and these can include the  
> list of
> messages that has been shown earlier in this thread.

And? We will remove {{'s on live site. Messages will be localized.

> What I am looking for is proper support.

Proper support for what?

> The least is proper documentation
> and it can be expanded to a procedure that allows other wikis to  
> benefit
> from the knowledge we have gained.

I have gained knowledge, that we cannot afford parsed messages within  
standard UI.

> My overriding concern is that our
> language support is not sacrificed at the cost of a few cycles. Even  
> when
> there are a lot of them.
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Domas Mituzas | 1 Sep 2009 01:15
Picon

Re: how to chang {{SITENAME}}

Hi,

> In the long-term, wouldn't it be smarter to make some of these stable
> and quasi-stable tokens automatically cache in their evaluated state?

We already do, we cache such simplified messages in Mediawiki:  
namespace.

> For something like {{SITENAME}} there is little reason to be looking
> it up every single time the message loads, so why not teach Mediawiki
> to pre-evaluate that and similar items before putting it in the
> message cache?

There is little reason to keep {{SITENAME}} in Mediawiki: namespace  
too :)
Generally, this could be handled by simple bot.

Do note, we end up with other messages, where people want to use  
singular/plural for e.g. 'Categories'.

>  For the rare case that such things do change you'd
> need to make sure that the cache does get rebuilt periodically (or
> have someway to detect such changes and deliberately refresh the
> cache), but such changes are so rare that adding some lag on update
> might be acceptable.

Well, Mediawiki: is such cache :) We don't need to change our code at  
all then :)

Domas
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Mark Williamson | 1 Sep 2009 04:16
Picon

Re: how to chang {{SITENAME}}

I was under the impression we were talking about changing the strings
at the individual Wikis, thus a custom message, not in the language
files used for all MediaWiki sites... I'm not sure, then, what the
problem is Gerard? If we alter a message locally at Wikipedia how does
that affect TranslateWiki's efficacy with regards to non-Wikimedia
wikis?

Mark

On 8/31/09, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
> Centralised localisation works when the resulting localised messages are
> usable and useful in all environments. More exceptions to this rule make it
> seem as if central localisation is not a good idea. There is already one
> acknowledged exception to the rule; messages that inform about the policies
> of a local wiki, there is now a second category and they are messages that
> have parameters like the system name.
>
> While I appreciate Domas' search for more performance, I am equally of the
> opinion that there are other factors to consider. Siebrand wrote that HE is
> aware of this. This is nice but we support other projects that run MediaWiki
> and our support should allow for THEY are aware of this. There is also a
> constant flow of new localised messages and these can include the list of
> messages that has been shown earlier in this thread. I can imagine that we
> have some functionality that is part of the update.php that updates these
> values in the plain vanilla messages.
>
> What I am looking for is proper support. The least is proper documentation
> and it can be expanded to a procedure that allows other wikis to benefit
> from the knowledge we have gained. My overriding concern is that our
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Manuel Schneider | 1 Sep 2009 07:41
Picon

Re: RegioWikiCamp - September 25-27, Germany

Hi Brianna and *,

Am Montag, 31. August 2009 16:17:24 schrieb Brianna Laugher:
> "It will be from September 25th to 27th. The event is located in
> Furtwangen the middle of the beautiful Black Forest in Germany. It is
> organised by the European Regiowiki Society, location host is the
> faculty of Digital Media of the Furtwangen University of Applied
> Science."

While I will definitely not go there, this is not far from my place.

If you need a hub to get there - feel free to contact me.
Unfortunately Furtwangen is a very remote place right in the middle of the 
black forest.
While nice during summer in winter they have got the highest suicidal rate at 
the university there as you're really stuck in a dark valley up there with 
not many possibilities to do something or to get somewhere.

Ways to get there:
By train from Switzerland, Germany, France 
via Basel (national stations for all three national railways)
via ICE to Offenburg
via RE to Triberg
then bus to Furtwangen

By aircraft fly to EuroAirport Basel/Freiburg/Mulhouse IATA BSL/MLH/EAP
take the swiss exit
via Bus line 50 to Basel SBB
then via train as described above
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Brion Vibber | 1 Sep 2009 08:36
Picon
Gravatar

Re: flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org Status?

On 8/31/09 4:34 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> Greetings.
>
> Can anyone provide a status update regarding flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org ?
>
> In the future perhaps it would be better to import simple english
> Wikipedia for enwp testing: The lack of templates makes the site look
> extensively vandalized already. I'm guessing that an alternative
> english language project would be more useful than a subset of enwp.
> :)

All templates referenced from the pages were included in the 
export/import, unless of course something messed up. :)

-- brion
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Brion Vibber | 1 Sep 2009 08:42
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Links to Special:ListUsers/...

On 8/31/09 1:12 PM, Ilmari Karonen wrote:
> Platonides wrote:
>> You get a request for page Foo:Bar. It could be a page name, or Foo
>> could mean Special in Bantu. How do you check (efficiently) over 300
>> languages?
>
> With array_key_exists(), surely?  It's (AFAIK) a (nearly) constant-time
> hash lookup.
>
> Of course, you don't want to have to load 300 Messages*.php files just
> to populate that array in the first place, but that just means that we'd
> have to consolidate the namespace aliases into a single file if we
> wanted to do this, rather than scattering them across hundreds of files
> like we do now.
>
> I've actually long wanted something like this for Commons.  At the very
> least, It Would Be Nice If all the localized aliases of the File/Image
> namespace were added to $wgNamespaceAliases for Commons.

While a good, performant implementation might be a little hairy, and the 
idea of name conflicts makes me break out in cold sweats, it *would* be 
nice if that worked, yes. :D

-- brion
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Chris Down | 1 Sep 2009 09:08
Picon
Gravatar

Re: flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org Status?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but simple shouldn't be locked into some sort
of 'testing' agreement with enwp unless there is some sort of consensus on
both sites, and I have little doubt that consensus will not exist for such
an action.

As I say, perhaps I am misunderstanding.

- Chris

2009/8/31 Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell <at> gmail.com>

> Greetings.
>
> Can anyone provide a status update regarding
> flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org ?
>
> In the future perhaps it would be better to import simple english
> Wikipedia for enwp testing: The lack of templates makes the site look
> extensively vandalized already. I'm guessing that an alternative
> english language project would be more useful than a subset of enwp.
> :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l <at> lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
Permalink | Reply | 4 comments |
headers
Gregory Maxwell | 1 Sep 2009 09:39
Picon
Gravatar

Re: flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org Status?

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Chris Down<asenine <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but simple shouldn't be locked into some sort
> of 'testing' agreement with enwp unless there is some sort of consensus on
> both sites, and I have little doubt that consensus will not exist for such
> an action.
>
> As I say, perhaps I am misunderstanding.

You're misunderstanding. I was suggesting making a copy, thus
"import", of simple instead of a partial copy of English. For testing
a copy of some wiki is required.  I'm personally quite happy testing
with a language I can't understand (avoids getting distracted reading
the text!) but many find it desirable to test with a language they
can.  Enwp itself is too big for a reasonable test import, but simple
is right-sized.

Seems my concern was moot in any case... Every time I loaded it I've
only seen trashed pages like this:
http://flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Melee

But I guess this is just a result of the import being incomplete.
Permalink | Reply | 3 comments |
headers
Domas Mituzas | 1 Sep 2009 10:36
Picon

Re: how to chang {{SITENAME}}

Hi,

> The point is, then it won't get automatically updates from  
> translatewiki.

Enwiki will be really really sad by not have pagetitle constantly  
translated by translatewiki :)
On the other hand, one could support branching of messages at  
translatewiki - isn't that what we do with mediawiki already? :)

> I don't support having a different syntax for mediawiki messages, but
> {{SITENAME}} can get susbstituted with a simple preg_replace (a
> str_replace if we know there won't be tags).

Can we avoid obfuscating our message system even more?

Domas
Permalink | Reply | 5 comments |
headers
K. Peachey | 1 Sep 2009 11:03
Picon
Gravatar

Re: flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org Status?

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Gregory Maxwell<gmaxwell <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Seems my concern was moot in any case... Every time I loaded it I've
> only seen trashed pages like this:
> http://flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Melee
>
> But I guess this is just a result of the import being incomplete.
It's not trashed.... it's just missing templates and possibly css
styles. The import was only for the articles, Someone needs to go in
and import the templates listed on [[Special:WantedTemplates]] [1] and
possibly the [[Mediawiki:Common.css]] and [[Mediawiki:Monobook]] from
the en.wikipedia[2][3].

-Peachey

[1]. http://flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WantedTemplates&limit=500&offset=0
[2]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css
[3]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Monobook.css
Permalink | Reply | 2 comments |

Gmane