Gerard Meijssen | 1 Jul 19:39 2008
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Implementing the Babel extension

Hoi.
The Babel templates are widely used on the Wikimedia Foundation's wikis.
Implementing them is a lot of work; you need more then 1000 templates just
to cover the languages that the Wikimedia Foundation supports in its
projects. Several Wikis have templates to support additional languages. For
the bigger projects this is no longer an issue as the templates have already
been created, but for many of the smaller projects getting the Babel
information implemented is a lot of work. It would be great if the time
could be saved to do something that is really useful like writing articles.

At Betawiki we have been working hard to create a Babel extension. The great
news of an extension is, that there is no need to do anything but implement
the extension. We currently think that the software is at a state where we
would like to invite the last comments leading to the implementation on all
the WMF wikis.

Thanks,
     Gerard
Gerard Meijssen | 1 Jul 23:01 2008
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Re: [Foundation-l] Implementing the Babel extension

Hoi,
Like any extension, the Babel extension has its documentation on the
Mediawiki.org website :) The extension is in use on Betawiki itself, yes we
eat our own dogfood :) We are happy with its functionality, it is
configurable..

As to comments or discussion, there is already a page on Meta.. there has
also been a lot of discussion so far has been largely on IRC.

Thanks,
       GerardM

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Babel
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Babel_extension

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 8:38 PM, effe iets anders <effeietsanders@...>
wrote:

> Hi Gerard,
>
> thanks for asking for comments. Where can we find the
> proposal/explanation/code and where to put those comments? :)
>
> BR, Lodewijk
>
> 2008/7/1 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@...>:
> > Hoi.
> > The Babel templates are widely used on the Wikimedia Foundation's wikis.
> > Implementing them is a lot of work; you need more then 1000 templates
> just
(Continue reading)

Brion Vibber | 1 Jul 23:51 2008
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Implementing the Babel extension

Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi.
> The Babel templates are widely used on the Wikimedia Foundation's wikis.
> Implementing them is a lot of work; you need more then 1000 templates just
> to cover the languages that the Wikimedia Foundation supports in its
> projects.

That is of course ridiculous, only a couple of templates should be 
required for "box with a number in it".

-- brion
Gerard Meijssen | 1 Jul 23:59 2008
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Implementing the Babel extension

Hoi,
If there was only a number in it... There is however a text in the templates
in the language that is indicated, the text is RTL or LTR where applicable.
Anyway, I agree with you that such a high number of templates is not really
what we want. and consequently the Babel extension provides a really welcome
relief.
Thanks.
     GerardM

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 11:51 PM, Brion Vibber <brion@...> wrote:

> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> > Hoi.
> > The Babel templates are widely used on the Wikimedia Foundation's wikis.
> > Implementing them is a lot of work; you need more then 1000 templates
> just
> > to cover the languages that the Wikimedia Foundation supports in its
> > projects.
>
> That is of course ridiculous, only a couple of templates should be
> required for "box with a number in it".
>
> -- brion
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@...
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
(Continue reading)

Casey Brown | 2 Jul 00:36 2008
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Implementing the Babel extension

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Brion Vibber <brion@...> wrote:
> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>> Hoi.
>> The Babel templates are widely used on the Wikimedia Foundation's wikis.
>> Implementing them is a lot of work; you need more then 1000 templates just
>> to cover the languages that the Wikimedia Foundation supports in its
>> projects.
>
> That is of course ridiculous, only a couple of templates should be
> required for "box with a number in it".
>
> -- brion
>

We try to use very few with our system on Meta-Wiki.
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:User_language>

One of my main problems with the babel extension is that I don't think
it gets rid of the *huge* number of categories that need to be created
(otherwise you have ugly redlinks).  The system on Meta-Wiki greatly
reduces the number of categories, but I've been told that the
extension's developer was completely against any changes to the
extension (I didn't hear it directly from him).

--

-- 
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to
(Continue reading)

Eugene Zelenko | 2 Jul 01:33 2008
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Implementing the Babel extension

Hi!

Even if categories will be preserved, it easy to create them (manually
or with bot) because of their regular nature. It much harder to keep
template messages on different languages synchronized or update color
scheme.

I think Babel extension is big advancement over existing state of things.

Eugene.

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml@...> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Brion Vibber <brion@...> wrote:
>> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>> Hoi.
>>> The Babel templates are widely used on the Wikimedia Foundation's wikis.
>>> Implementing them is a lot of work; you need more then 1000 templates just
>>> to cover the languages that the Wikimedia Foundation supports in its
>>> projects.
>>
>> That is of course ridiculous, only a couple of templates should be
>> required for "box with a number in it".
>>
>> -- brion
>>
>
> We try to use very few with our system on Meta-Wiki.
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:User_language>
>
> One of my main problems with the babel extension is that I don't think
(Continue reading)

Tim Starling | 2 Jul 04:18 2008
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New static HTML dumps available

New static HTML dumps of all Wikipedia editions are now available:

http://static.wikipedia.org/

Altogether, the dumps are 650GB uncompressed, 40GB compressed.

I think a reasonable next step for this project would be to write filter
scripts that take a compressed dump, reduce the article count in some way,
and then recompress it, possibly in a different format. For instance, we
could have a "most popular 4GB" of the English Wikipedia, based on page
view statistics, recompressed as an SQLite database.

-- Tim Starling
Casey Brown | 2 Jul 04:45 2008
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Implementing the Babel extension

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:33 PM, Eugene Zelenko
<eugene.zelenko@...> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Even if categories will be preserved, it easy to create them (manually
> or with bot) because of their regular nature. It much harder to keep
> template messages on different languages synchronized or update color
> scheme.
>
> I think Babel extension is big advancement over existing state of things.
>
> Eugene.
>

Then why can't we have them both?  Re-write the babel extension to fit
(as was pointed out in this read) what seems the "better" way (how
we're doing it on Meta).  Then we would have less categories that take
up un-necessary space (even if created by a bot) and a standardized
way of doing things with an extension.

Jesse, why don't you just re-write the Babel extension to be more like
the Meta system and get someone to upload that to SVN? :-)  Name it
something like "Babel 2" and include the original author in the
credits? :-)

--

-- 
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
(Continue reading)

Casey Brown | 2 Jul 16:06 2008
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Implementing the Babel extension

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:36 AM, Niklas Laxström
<niklas.laxstrom@...> wrote:
> On 02/07/2008, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml@...> wrote:
>
>> We try to use very few with our system on Meta-Wiki.
>>  <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:User_language>
>
> It is still using one per language, which means hundreds of them. Now,
> which is easier: copying hundreds of templates periodically, or
> installing an extension that can be updated the normal way. Especially
> for wikies outside of WMF which do not use many bots, if any.

You still aren't understanding me... I'm *love* the idea of an
extension to do this, I would rather we install it/one with the best
features first (especially if it's Wikimedia-wide).

>
>>
>>  One of my main problems with the babel extension is that I don't think
>>  it gets rid of the *huge* number of categories that need to be created
>>  (otherwise you have ugly redlinks).
>
> There is already a switch to have less categories, requested by me for
> example. What comes to creating the category pages... this is the
> first time I see anyone bringing it up.

$wgBabelUseMainCategories
    A boolean (true or false) indicating whether main categories
featuring all users who specify a level for that language should be
added to a xx category; defaults to true.
(Continue reading)

Thomas Larsen | 4 Jul 05:42 2008
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Proposed fork of Wikipedia

Hi folks,

I am formally proposing that Wikipedia be forked and that a new
compendium of human knowledge, Wikipendium, be created as an
independent alternative with a more pleasant, respectful, productive,
constructive community with simple, clear rules and an unbureaucratic
and responsible governance structure.

I believe, along with many others, that Wikipedia community members
are frequently unjustifiably hostile towards viewpoints other than
their own and towards the users who hold these viewpoints.  In
addition, I feel that Wikipedia has become too bureaucratic,
ineffective, and indecisive and has placed the values of quantity and
openness, while important, over those of quality and reliability
respectively.  I believe that Wikipedia's continued rejection of, and
discrimination _against_, experts is outrageous and must be amended,
but in a far less elitist and arrogant way than Citizendium has
attempted.

The official proposal may be found as a blog at
http://wikipendium.blogspot.com/ .  All people who are interested are
invited to participate in discussion there.

Best and friendly regards,

Thomas

--

-- 
Thomas H. Larsen
thomashlarsen.wmf@...
(Continue reading)


Gmane