Mark Williamson | 1 May 2007 01:10
Picon

Re: Quality vs Quantity

Hi Andre,

Your English is actually very good :-)

I think the Friulian Wikipedia should be a shining example for other
Wikipedias -- since the very beginning, it has had good quality
articles, written in official orthography, and dedicated contributors,
even when they didn't have much time for fur.wiki. (I have kept an eye
on it because I helped place the initial request for it and I think
the language is beautiful)

Your attitude of quality over quantity is unique among Wikis of that
size and deserves applause and attention, especially as you have paved
the way for the Friulian language into the 21st century.

Mark

On 30/04/07, A. Decorte <adecorte@...> wrote:
> Well, I talk as an admin of Friulian Wiki (fur.wiki). I don't like
> thousand of stubs, I prefer less articles, but more complete. This
> doesn't mean as complete as in big Wikis, because it would take me too
> much time to translate a full article from, say, en.wiki, I usually
> translate instead from the Wikipedia in Catalan, since they seem to
> have a good balance between length and completeness. I also think
> every wiki should rather add stubs that have good chances to develop.
> We are currently adding the States of the world, since this is a
> subject which is pretty well covered in other languages. I instead
> said no to adding as stubs the 8000 "communites" of Italy. That
> addition could bring us to the magic 10 000 threshold (we are at 2000)
> but most of those articles IMHO will stay stub forever, since even in
(Continue reading)

Thomas Dalton | 1 May 2007 12:51
Picon

Re: Quality vs Quantity

> One way to encourage longer articles would be to rank languages on
> the www.wikipedia.org front page by word count (or perhaps byte
> count) rather than article count.  According to [1] the Chinese
> Wikipedia has 50.6 M words in March 2007 and the Russian has 47.1
> M words, compared to the Swedish Wikipedia's 36.2 M words.
> Changing the ranking of the Swedish one from 9th to 11th would
> send a clear message to the stub-happy swedes.

The amount of information in each word varies from language to
language, so that doesn't work too well. It works for comparing
similar languages, but Chinese and Swedish could end up having very
different numbers of words for exactly the same content.
Berto 'd Sera | 1 May 2007 13:01
Favicon

Re: Quality vs Quantity

100% true. Just compound words in german may make a great difference towards
English, in piemontese we thousands of 'L L' n' 'n that would count as words
and are but pronominal particles, plus we usually say everything twice
(double subject, double locatives, etc).

Quantitative methods are hardly going to help in such cases.

Berto 'd Sera
Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html

-----Original Message-----
From: wikipedia-l-bounces@...
[mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
Thomas Dalton
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:52 PM
To: wikipedia-l@...
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Quality vs Quantity

> One way to encourage longer articles would be to rank languages on
> the www.wikipedia.org front page by word count (or perhaps byte
> count) rather than article count.  According to [1] the Chinese
> Wikipedia has 50.6 M words in March 2007 and the Russian has 47.1
> M words, compared to the Swedish Wikipedia's 36.2 M words.
> Changing the ranking of the Swedish one from 9th to 11th would
> send a clear message to the stub-happy swedes.

The amount of information in each word varies from language to
language, so that doesn't work too well. It works for comparing
similar languages, but Chinese and Swedish could end up having very
(Continue reading)

Berto 'd Sera | 1 May 2007 13:25
Favicon

Re: Quality vs Quantity

Hoi!

>What we are focusing on are articles about local themes, personalities
>and so on, stuff that you can't find elsewhere, 
Yes, that's an option we are discussing, too. It really makes sense to
produce specialized content since you cannot compete at horizontal level
with en.wiki anyway. I hear the Galicians are on that road, too. 

My doubt on the subject is that people come and write what they please
(usually a few lines, more rarely a proper article), so how do you manage to
plan your content? I'll be grateful for any info you can share.

I think we should open a forum (with normal forum software, not a wiki) to
host discussions among small wikies. We have our dimensions, problems and
needs; it could be useful to share ideas where people are like you. 

FMI, is Furlan taught in public schools? When you have schools you don't
need to make an alphabetized user base out of thin air and subsequently
don't need sandbox stubs and the like. :)

Bèrto ‘d Sèra
Personagi dl’ann 2006 për l’arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojàotri)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
The Cunctator | 1 May 2007 19:05
Picon

Re: Account password restrictions changed

Why not?

On 4/28/07, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton@...> wrote:
> > Wikipedia should be more user friendly than that. No need for us to act like
> > BOFHs.
>
> Do you have a suggestion for how to handle it? If we can't confirm
> someone's identity, we can't give them access to the account, however
> friendly we may be.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l@...
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
phoebe ayers | 1 May 2007 19:52
Picon

New Pew Internet report: 36% of Americans consult Wikipedia

Maybe not news, considering our traffic rankings.... but this is one of the
first "real" studies of Wikipedia use I've seen, conducted by the
prestigious Pew Internet project and released in April 2007 in a "data
memo".
http://www.pewinternet.org/pdfs/PIP_Wikipedia07.pdf

The first few paragraphs:
" More than a third of American adult internet users (36%) consult the
citizen-generated online encyclopedia Wikipedia, according to a new
nationwide survey by the Pew Internet & American Life Project. And on a
typical day in the winter of 2007, 8% of online Americans consulted
Wikipedia.

There has been ongoing controversy about the reliability of articles on
Wikipedia. Still, the Pew Internet Project survey shows that Wikipedia is
far more popular among the well-educated than it is among those with lower
levels of education. For instance, 50% of those with at least a college
degree consult the site, compared with 22% of those with a high school
diploma.

And 46% of those age 18 and older who are current full- or part-time
students have used Wikipedia, compared with 36% of the overall internet
population.
In addition, young adults and broadband users have been among those who are
earlier adopters of Wikipedia. While 44% of those ages 18-29 use Wikipedia
to look for information, just 29% of users age 50 and older consult the
site. In a similar split, 42% of home broadband users look for information
on Wikipedia, while just 26% of home dial-up users do so."
A. Decorte | 1 May 2007 20:15
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Quality vs Quantity

> My doubt on the subject is that people come and write what they please
> (usually a few lines, more rarely a proper article), so how do you manage to
> plan your content? I'll be grateful for any info you can share.
Well, if I'm writing an article from scratch, I usually search for
information in encyclopedias and different books (mostly in Italian),
I gather them than I write down a first textual version, that I'll
later wikify. But there are also articles started from other people,
even anonymous, and they usually add just few infos as you said. We
usually try to add thing like their bibliography or more about their
life, even if there is always the problem that you don't find much on
Internet, so it's a heavier work. And consider also that (like you
AFAIK) I don't live in Friuli, so I can't access to many sources
normally. This is a problem that people usually think is limited to
developing countries, but it affects also smaller, minorized language
in the Western world. That of the forum could be a good idea, IMHO
this would be very useful (I'm thinking for example at bots for
international stuff like countries, or domains).

About school, you touch a big issue. Teaching is already mentioned in
1999 minority law, but it should *probably* start next year; there's a
lot of problems tough, I don't know if it will start but I hope so.
This would be a huge help, before it's too late. Here [
http://www.lenghe.net/read_art.php?articles_id=1243&PHPSESSID=f5a34db500ea3ae9e89f2a14b8ec5ea2
] you can for example see that CGIL (which is one of the main trade
unions in Italy) is opposing since "the 50% of the teacher come from
elsewhere, and they don't speak Friulian.

>
> I think we should open a forum (with normal forum software, not a wiki) to
> host discussions among small wikies. We have our dimensions, problems and
(Continue reading)

Brian | 1 May 2007 20:42
Picon
Favicon

Re: New Pew Internet report: 36% of Americans consult Wikipedia

No surprises here. I can walk into a given computer lab on campus and see at
least a dozen people surfing Wikipedia during finals.

On 5/1/07, phoebe ayers <phoebe.wiki@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe not news, considering our traffic rankings.... but this is one of
> the
> first "real" studies of Wikipedia use I've seen, conducted by the
> prestigious Pew Internet project and released in April 2007 in a "data
> memo".
> http://www.pewinternet.org/pdfs/PIP_Wikipedia07.pdf
>
> The first few paragraphs:
> " More than a third of American adult internet users (36%) consult the
> citizen-generated online encyclopedia Wikipedia, according to a new
> nationwide survey by the Pew Internet & American Life Project. And on a
> typical day in the winter of 2007, 8% of online Americans consulted
> Wikipedia.
>
> There has been ongoing controversy about the reliability of articles on
> Wikipedia. Still, the Pew Internet Project survey shows that Wikipedia is
> far more popular among the well-educated than it is among those with lower
> levels of education. For instance, 50% of those with at least a college
> degree consult the site, compared with 22% of those with a high school
> diploma.
>
> And 46% of those age 18 and older who are current full- or part-time
> students have used Wikipedia, compared with 36% of the overall internet
> population.
> In addition, young adults and broadband users have been among those who
(Continue reading)

Phil Boswell | 2 May 2007 11:04
Picon

Re: Quality vs Quantity


Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 
>> Not if you need tables. Tables in wiki-markup are the most awful things I
>> ever saw. And most technical data is traditionally presented in tables.
> A table generator would be good - not full WYSIWYG, just somewhere to
> input number of rows and columns and then you get a textbox for each
> cell and type the appropriate code in them, and then it gives you the
> full wikisyntax for the table.
> 
There's an extra toolbar button on en-wiki which will create a table
skeleton for you. Here's the result of simply clicking the button:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&oldid=127636442>

It should not be too difficult for people to understand that they simply
replace the text in the skeleton, and that the various symbols create the
table structure. Surely this is easier than translating HTML tags from
not-exactly-english to whatever language you're dealing with.

That button used to fire up a basic table-editing widget, but it broke some
browsers (and probably some other stuff) and was replaced with the simpler
version. However that code would still be available (see here
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/342nby>)if someone wanted to take a shot at
making it less horrible.

HTH HAND
-- 
Phil
--

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Quality-vs-Quantity-tf3660405.html#a10282417
(Continue reading)

Ros’ Haruo | 2 May 2007 23:45
Picon

Asosiy:-prefix at wikiuz_p

Why do the interwiki links in the Uzbek Wikipedia, and the article titles at
their list of Newpages, all have "Asosiy:" prefixed so that they point to
nonexistent pages and one has to manually remove the "Asosiy:" and reload to
get to the page the link ŝould have taken you to? I have asked this various
places in various ways and so far no one has either explained the reason for
the defect or corrected it.

Haruo
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l <at> lists.wikimedia.org
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Gmane