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Puddl Duk | 1 Jun 2005 01:10
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Re: Re: Copyright violations at download.wikimedia.org

On 5/31/05, Roger Luethi <collector@...> wrote:
> 
> So I guess there is no need to ever flag a copyvio, then. Should some
> copyright holder ever complain, we will just change change some words
> in his text and the problem will go away. Well, that sure makes life
> a lot easier.

The biggest reason for tagging and a one week listing is review, some
pages are mistakenly tagged.

It also gives time and space for copyright holders to give permision.
And time to re-write the article before the offending pages are
deleted

> 
> Roger
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Mark Williamson | 1 Jun 2005 01:11
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Re: Ossetic again (bugs, bugs, bugs...)

Same with fur.wikipedia - links to certain other Wikipedias don't work.

Mark

On 31/05/05, V. Ivanov <amikeco@...> wrote:
> There are still some bugs that rest to be fixed in the Ossetic WP:
> 
> 2005/5/5, V. Ivanov <amikeco@...>:
> > PS: {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} and similar things still don't work at
> > [[:os:]]. See http://os.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics
> 
> Neither work the interwikies to [[av]], [[cv]], [[nn]] and some other newer WPs.
> 
> Sl.
> 
> --
> Esperu cxiam!
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l@...
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> 

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Puddl Duk | 1 Jun 2005 01:13
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Re: Re: Copyright violations at download.wikimedia.org

On 5/31/05, Roger Luethi <collector@...> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 May 2005 09:02:12 +1000, David Gerard wrote:
> > Our proactive approach, though, does stand us in good stead should we ever
> > end up in a courtroom. Generally the copyvio page is *rabid* and that's
> > good. Even if on many occasions the author of a given text has to point out
> > they're the editor that added it to Wikipedia ;-)
> 
> Based on my experience in patrolling WP.en I think you are a tad
> over-optimistic. What you see on WP:CP may only be the tip of the
> iceberg.
> 
> I find plenty of copyvios that are several days old, and I've had to
> undo the work of weeks or months because some people just copy and
> paste stuff from other web sites (no, not WP mirrors) without being
> caught. That is a very unpleasant experience for everyone involved,
> especially if other editors kept working on the text in good faith.
> 
> The longer a copyvio remains unchallenged, the harder it becomes to
> catch it after several copyedits changed bits and pieces of it. That
> doesn't fix the copyvio, though. I had a case just yesterday where
> my reverting a copyvio was reverted again, and editors started
> "refactoring" the text to "mitigate" the problem.
> 
> <rant>
> Some comments on [[m:Avoid Copyright Paranoia]] ain't exactly helping.
> </rant>
> 
> Roger
> _______________________________________________
(Continue reading)

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Bryan Derksen | 1 Jun 2005 03:03
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Re: Ossetic again (bugs, bugs, bugs...)

Mark Williamson wrote:

>Same with fur.wikipedia - links to certain other Wikipedias don't work.
>  
>
Ack. For one brief, glorious and horrifying moment I thought perhaps we 
had a Wikipedia specifically for furries. :)
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Mark Williamson | 1 Jun 2005 02:02
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Re: An idea

In some situations however it would be a good thing for the person
with the degree in astrophysics to tell the person without to stfu.

Edo Nyland and those few who agree with his crackpot theories
(http://www.highspeedplus.com/~edonon/linguist.htm) - ie, that all the
modern languages of the world with the exception of Basque, Ainu, and
the Dravidian languages were all invented by Benedictine monks as part
of a conspiracy.

In addition to sloppy and inaccurate work (ie, not all of his rules
apply all of the time, and he doesn't seem to realise that
statistically any word, even one made up at random, you could find the
"etymology" of by using his almost-too-large Basque dictionary and his
system for deconstructing 'invented' words), his theories are just so
astronomically stupid that nobody who spent 4 years studying
linguistics (let alone somebody who has a PhD in linguistics) would
buy any of his crap.

Without the makeshift credential system we already have in place to
idiotproof the language-related articles of Wikipedia (see the
response when some guy tried to add crap to the Finno-Ugric article
about how it hasn't been proven as conclusively as it really has, and
that most linguists disagree which they most certainly do not), he
could add his theories all over Wikipedia.

Short of that, he could add shortcomings of the comparative method
(the way REAL linguists find which languages are related) which don't
really exist (there are shortcomings, but the ones he gives are
extremely na"ive and show a complete lack of understanding of the
complex statistical reasons why his own ideas do _not_ make any
(Continue reading)

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Ray Saintonge | 1 Jun 2005 01:59

Re: Re: Copyright violations at download.wikimedia.org

Roger Luethi wrote:

>On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:03:44 -0700, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>  
>
>>Refactoring may completely remove the problem, not just mitigate it.  
>>    
>>
>So I guess there is no need to ever flag a copyvio, then. Should some
>copyright holder ever complain, we will just change change some words
>in his text and the problem will go away. Well, that sure makes life
>a lot easier.
>
Do you have statitics on how many have complained?

>>Copyright applies to the way something is expressed, and not to what is 
>>expressed.  So what's the difference between a copyvio text that has 
>>been refactored, and the same refactored text being added from the 
>>beginning?
>>    
>>
>Why do we delete pages that start as copyvios, rather than refactoring
>them?
>
I really can't answer that, since I would never have preferred that as a 
first option.  The important step is taking prompt action when the 
copyvio is identified.

Ec
(Continue reading)

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Mark Williamson | 1 Jun 2005 02:03
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Re: Re: Paid-for-articles WPs in smaller languages

...

But there is already a basic amount of articles.

I had already informed the institutions and it seems my e-mails were
ignored. (this is back when there were 0 articles)

Mark

On 31/05/05, Wouter Steenbeek <musiqolog@...> wrote:
> Guaka scripsit:
> > >From my experience with both the Limburgish and the Bambara Wikipedia
> >nearly all existing institutes won't really bother as long as there's
> >not a basic amount of articles.
> 
> Well, in the case of the Limburgic wikipedia: the institutions were simply
> ignorant of the project. Recently we started contacting some of them,
> receiving positive reactions and some beginning edits, even though they
> hadn't yet informed their members.
> 
> Wouter
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Nieuw: Beeld en geluid met MSN Messenger 7.0 http://messenger.msn.nl/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l@...
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
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Gregory Maxwell | 1 Jun 2005 02:06
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Re: Re: Copyright violations at download.wikimedia.org

On 5/31/05, Roger Luethi <collector@...> wrote:
> Based on my experience in patrolling WP.en I think you are a tad
> over-optimistic. What you see on WP:CP may only be the tip of the
> iceberg.

I would agree.

> I find plenty of copyvios that are several days old, and I've had to
> undo the work of weeks or months because some people just copy and
> paste stuff from other web sites (no, not WP mirrors) without being
> caught. That is a very unpleasant experience for everyone involved,
> especially if other editors kept working on the text in good faith.
> 
> The longer a copyvio remains unchallenged, the harder it becomes to
> catch it after several copyedits changed bits and pieces of it. That
> doesn't fix the copyvio, though. I had a case just yesterday where
> my reverting a copyvio was reverted again, and editors started
> "refactoring" the text to "mitigate" the problem.

My favorite en.wikipedia copyvio story:  Marked an image as copyvio on
the wp:cp page, two weeks later nothing was done, so I replaced the
image with a cruddy sketch just to get it out of the current
version... A few days later another wikipedian replaced my cruddy
sketch with another drawing (the first hit for the subject on GIS at
the time) and tagged as PD, saying in the summery that it came from a
state university webpage and was thus PD (!!?!). The image actually
came off some students home page, I contacted the student.. and the
image was not PD nor was the student the copyright holder. :)   ... So
far, every single copyright tag I've checked out on en has been
incorrect, although I've only checked out the suspicious ones, so it's
(Continue reading)

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Mark Williamson | 1 Jun 2005 06:17
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Re: Ossetic again (bugs, bugs, bugs...)

You and all of #wikipedia... ;p

I never have once mentioned it in there that somebody didn't say
something about furries...

Similar to the Uyghur Wikipedia (ug.wikipedia) and caveman...

Mark

On 31/05/05, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen@...> wrote:
> Mark Williamson wrote:
> 
> >Same with fur.wikipedia - links to certain other Wikipedias don't work.
> >
> >
> Ack. For one brief, glorious and horrifying moment I thought perhaps we
> had a Wikipedia specifically for furries. :)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> Wikipedia-l@...
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
> 

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Mark Williamson | 1 Jun 2005 06:29
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Re: Re: Jimbo interview on NPR Friday?

Hi Ant

The "quickly integrated" kids you speak of aren't actually integrated so well.

Although most have at least a "satisfactory" command of English, they
prefer Spanish in all contexts, and at schools the Spanish-speaking
kids tend to have a separate social life than the English-speaking
kids, even though most of the Spanish-speaking kids are fluent in
English as well.

As far as the internet, if you go to "teen central" at the Burton Barr
branch of the Phoenix Public Library (4th floor I think?), you will
see that a good percentage of the kids are browsing the internet in
Spanish, mostly checking e-mail at yahoo.com.mx (Mexican Yahoo!)
though sometimes doing other things.

I'm guessing that if they wanted to use Wikipedia, they would use the
Spanish version if they knew it existed, although in a school context
they might use English instead (sociolinguistic reasons: Spanish is,
in many ways, seen by kids as not OK for any usage inside the
classroom, so they will often use English even if there are two
versions available).

Mark
(In Tucson right now)

On 26/05/05, Anthere <anthere9@...> wrote:
> Nod. Most of your arguments are valid to me.
> 
> But, reading them, I thought of asking a question.
(Continue reading)

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Gmane