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Ray Saintonge | 1 Oct 2003 02:31

Re: Logo results as tallied pairwise (Condorcet)

Richard Grevers wrote:

>> Hi Andre,
>>
>> thanks for pointing that out. If this is really the case, I also propose
>> a recount (how should one now that ~~~~ between == don't work?!). (IIRC,
>> I came back from holiday just before the voting period ended and didn't
>> check if my vote was counted) 
>
> Well that's three users who were qualified to vote who missed out for 
> technical reasons. I signed the same way, but the page never reloaded 
> full (the server was down for the next hour or two, and by the time I 
> managed to get back to W the next day, voting was done and dusted.
>
> This probably isn't going to affect first place, but may well swap 2nd 
> and 3rd. 

In all fairness I did complain when I saw that my vote had been 
disallowed.  Andre reviewed the issue.

I've since looked at the situation and my vote was reinstated (though 
none of the others.  Thanks Erik.

Ray
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Guillaume Blanchard | 1 Oct 2003 06:56
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WikiSyntax

Hello all,
Some idea of WikiSyntax :

<<foo>> (<center>foo</center>)
<<foo<< (<div align="left">foo</div>)
>>foo>> (<div align="right">foo</div>)
^^foo^^ (<sup>foo</sup>)
__foo__ (<sub>foo</sub>)

There a place to discuss it ?

Aoineko
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tarquin | 1 Oct 2003 12:29

Re: WikiSyntax


Guillaume Blanchard wrote:

>Hello all,
>Some idea of WikiSyntax :
>
><<foo>> (<center>foo</center>)
><<foo<< (<div align="left">foo</div>)
>  
>
>>>foo>> (<div align="right">foo</div>)
>>>
My first thought is "YUCK! presentational!"
could be useful for images, but I think we might be using table markup 
for those. Not sure.

>>>      
>>>
>^^foo^^ (<sup>foo</sup>)
>__foo__ (<sub>foo</sub>)
>  
>
already been suggested, but I'm not sure what was decided
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Till Westermayer | 1 Oct 2003 12:33
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AW: Re: Logo results as tallied pairwise (Condorcet)

Erik,

it's not that easy. There was a template for the vote, I used it (replacing
"[[User:Foo]]" with "~~~" or "~~~~", because that's the way we do it in
Wikipedia, don't we), and I didn't check if everything was okay (because
I didn't had time and because I thought that the given template will work).
The template didn't (or my interpretation of the template didn't). That's
not a question of strict rules, but of not working ballot machines, and
especially one of equality of the vote, if some votes were counted and some
not. This is in my perspective a major problem, even if the result won't
be changed by counting the three or whatever disabled votes. One just can't
say "let's have a vote" and the arbitrarily say which vote counts and which
doesn't count. So the whole voting process is tainted, I'd say.

Regards, Till

>-- Original Nachricht --
>Date: 30 Sep 2003 23:26:00 +0200
>From: erik_moeller@... (Erik Moeller)
>To: wikipedia-l@...
>Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Logo results as tallied pairwise (Condorcet)
>Cc: 
>Reply-To: wikipedia-l@...
>
>
>Richard-
>> On 30 Sep 2003 21:23:00 +0200, Till Westermayer <till@...> gave
>> utterance to the following:
>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . till we *) . .
(Continue reading)

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Andre Engels | 1 Oct 2003 12:41
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Re: Logo results as tallied pairwise (Condorcet)

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Ray Saintonge wrote:

> In all fairness I did complain when I saw that my vote had been
> disallowed.  Andre reviewed the issue.
>
> I've since looked at the situation and my vote was reinstated (though
> none of the others.  Thanks Erik.

Actually, Jeroenvrp's was reinstated as well.

Andre Engels
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Andre Engels | 1 Oct 2003 13:01
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Re: Logo results as tallied pairwise (Condorcet)

On 30 Sep 2003, Erik Moeller wrote:

> ==~~~~== does work, but there are apparently certain browser/OS
> combinations which had problems with the Unicode representation on Meta
> and copy and pasted it in a way that doesn't work. To avoid this from
> occurring repeatedly I changed the template at some point to just say
> ==[[User:Foo]]==. In any case, most invalid ballots have been marked as
> invalid long before the vote ended, and all invalid ones are listed on
> [[International logo vote/Invalid ballots]]. The rules for what type of
> ballot is acceptable and what type is not have been made very clear
> repeatedly, and, to my knowledge, nobody has voted for Pat Buchanan.

No, but some have voted in the reasonable expectation that their vote was
valid, whereas it was not. The rules were laid out to ensure that people
were a valid user (i.e. with at least 10 contributions) on some Wikipedia.
They were not laid out to make voting more difficult by creating
technicalities.

People have linked directly to their elsewhere user page rather than through
their meta page, people have had links on their meta page to Wikipedia pages
on www.wikipedia.com because they were so long users, people have given their
nick and said "I am from the English Wikipedia". Those have all not been
counted. Why? Because there is the possibility they cheated? No. Because
they did not go with some random rule. Or in some cases, like the one we
are describing now, because they simply had technical problems.

> Note that some people refused to accept the first round of voting because
> the rules were too lax and cheating was too easy. If some people refuse to
> accept the second round of voting because the rules are too strict and
> cheating is too difficult, then I think these complaints can be fairly
(Continue reading)

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Erik Moeller | 1 Oct 2003 14:06
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Re: Logo results as tallied pairwise (Condorcet)

Andre-
> No, but some have voted in the reasonable expectation that their vote was
> valid, whereas it was not.

I don't have time to validate votes beyond the rules as they were clearly  
laid out on the voting page. If you wish to post-vote validate some  
ballots, go ahead and do it. In the case of the ~~~~ votes, this includes  
checking the history and locating the exact revision where this text was  
added, then checking which username made the addition (and only counting  
it if it was in fact a username, and not an anonymous IP). Have fun.

Regards,

Erik
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Guillaume Blanchard | 1 Oct 2003 14:06
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Re: WikiSyntax

> Guillaume Blanchard wrote:
>
> >Hello all,
> >Some idea of WikiSyntax :
> >
> > <<foo>> (<center>foo</center>)
> > <<foo<< (<div align="left">foo</div>)
> >
> >
> > >>foo>> (<div align="right">foo</div>)
> >
> My first thought is "YUCK! presentational!"
> could be useful for images, but I think we might be using table markup
> for those. Not sure.
>
>
>
> > ^^foo^^ (<sup>foo</sup>)
> > __foo__ (<sub>foo</sub>)
> >
> >
> already been suggested, but I'm not sure what was decided

Do someone know where this discussion was taking place ?
I didn't found a [[WikiSyntax]] page on the meta, perhaps it's a good idea
to create (if it don't already exist somewhere).

Aoineko
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Andre Engels | 1 Oct 2003 15:02
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Re: Logo results as tallied pairwise (Condorcet)

On 1 Oct 2003, Erik Moeller wrote:

> Andre-
> > No, but some have voted in the reasonable expectation that their vote was
> > valid, whereas it was not.
>
> I don't have time to validate votes beyond the rules as they were clearly
> laid out on the voting page. If you wish to post-vote validate some
> ballots, go ahead and do it. In the case of the ~~~~ votes, this includes
> checking the history and locating the exact revision where this text was
> added, then checking which username made the addition (and only counting
> it if it was in fact a username, and not an anonymous IP). Have fun.

I already did, see
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/intlwiki-l/2003-September/002338.html
where I have checked the various removed votes, and given my opinion about
them.

I did not check the votes on other languages there, so I will have to
check a bit more.

-------------------
I'm not accepting the results if not included:
* Kpjas
Links to his en: page, just uses a link that worked when he created it
2 years ago, but does not any more. Apart from that an ancient and
well-known wikipedian.

-------------------
Certainly in favor of inclusion:
(Continue reading)

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Erik Moeller | 1 Oct 2003 15:14
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Re: Logo results as tallied pairwise (Condorcet)

Andre-
> I already did

Great. So everything's peachy, no?

Regards,

Erik
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Gmane