Yann

2013/5/12 Achal Prabhala <aprabhala-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
> I like Wikilivres, was just wondering - has anyone tried to create a
> placeholder for an image/ text on commons or Wikisource with an external
> link to the file on Wikilivres (when said image or file is public domain
> outside the US but not within) - I guess the question is how to connect
> public domain work that cannot be hosted on US servers to Wikimedia, which
> is.
>
>
> On Sunday 12 May 2013 03:01 PM, Yann Forget wrote:
>>
>> There is already in Canada a server available for hosting content
>> which cannot be hosted on Wikimedia servers. I think this solution
>> should gather more support.
>> http://wikilivres.ca/ (previously wikilivres.info).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Yann
>>
>> 2013/5/12 Achal Prabhala <aprabhala-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>:
>>>
>>> Hi Balasankar,
>>>
>>> The question you raise is a very important one. The solution, however, is
>>> not likely to be to host content in India (I don't speak for the
>>> Wikimedia
>>> Foundation, but there are sound legal reasons why all Wikimedia content
>>> is
>>> hosted in the US; mostly liability risk and freedom of expression and
>>> this
>>> is unlikely to change).
>>>
>>> The default across Commons and Wikisource, the two projects that host the
>>> bulk of public domain content (images, videos, sounds, books) in
>>> Wikimedia,
>>> is the US copyright term - it's the only yardstick that matters for what
>>> qualifies as public domain by virtue of being out of copyright. You are
>>> absolutely right, however, in that there's a big difference btw US
>>> copyright
>>> terms and those of other countries, for instance:
>>>
>>> For photographs, while the binding limit (Berne/TRIPs) is 25 years from
>>> the
>>> making of the work, India is life of photographer + 60 years after death,
>>> and in the US it is life + 70.
>>>
>>> For literary works, the binding limit (Berne/ TRIPs) is life + 50 years,
>>> whereas in India it is life + 60, whereas in the US it is life + 70 or
>>> 120/95 if made on work for hire.
>>>
>>> (The binding limit is the WTO mandated term that country members - US and
>>> India and 150 others - have to follow. As you can see, typically, most
>>> countries exceed the limit for reasons of their own, which they are
>>> allowed
>>> to do, with the US exceeding in far greater amount than India.)
>>>
>>> In short, there can be a difference of between 10 and 40 years between
>>> the
>>> time a work goes into the public domain in a country with shorter terms
>>> than
>>> the US (any number of countries in the non-Anglo-European world) and the
>>> US.
>>> This seriously affects even 'Indian' works (where India is the first
>>> country
>>> of publication) because of the copyright protection granted to such works
>>> in
>>> the US, thus effectively placing them under copyright for our purposes
>>> within Wikimedia long after they've gone in to the public domain in their
>>> source country.
>>>
>>> The case to consider here is Golan:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_v._Holder
>>>
>>> A summary of the US Supreme Court decision in this case is - US law
>>> trumps
>>> international agreements, so the US copyright term holds within US
>>> territory, and restores copyright protection to any works that have gone
>>> into the public domain by virtue of a shorter copyright term in another
>>> country. Because Wikimedia servers are based in the US, Golan applies to
>>> us.
>>>
>>> But your question is an extremely pertinent one, and if we were to find
>>> unusual solutions to it, they would seem to lie in:
>>>
>>> 1) Whether hosting on US servers for a global audience makes any
>>> difference,
>>> since we do not serve readers only bound by US law (Wikimedia reader
>>> numbers
>>> bear this out, ie US readership = minority percentage of whole) and
>>> whether
>>> we specifically have anything special on the basis of which to mount some
>>> kind of strategic litigation on the issue of allowing us to exploit the
>>> shortest possible route to public domain anywhere in the world for all or
>>> some of our readers.
>>>
>>> 2) Whether hosting on US servers but using publicly audited geolocation
>>> to
>>> switch off for readers from IP addresses where the material in question
>>> is
>>> still under copyright is a legally and operationally feasible workaround
>>> (connected to whether Wikimedia Tech thinks this is both doable and worth
>>> our while to do)
>>>
>>> 3) Whether, if all fails and there is no getting around this in any way,
>>> Commons and Wikisource (if there is sufficient interest in those
>>> communities) should be interested in looking at a way of allowing
>>> external
>>> links to chapter-managed local sites from the US-served base to see the
>>> material in question; and if this is something, say, the India chapter
>>> wants
>>> and is willing to do, whether this route poses any legal risks.
>>>
>>> In any case, I passed around your question to a few friends for comments
>>> and
>>> suggestions - as well as to Geoff Brigham at the Wikimedia Foundation,
>>> who
>>> is not too hopeful for a solution but is very receptive to looking into
>>> it
>>> and getting back to us - and I'll tell you when I know something.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, if you have other ways of looking into creative solutions
>>> around
>>> this problem (not at all easy to crack, but the benefits are significant)
>>> -
>>> or if anyone else on this list does - you should.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Achal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday 10 May 2013 10:20 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Srikanth,
>>> I didnt quite understand what you meant by example.
>>> An example for a work which is in public domain in India and not in US -
>>> Works by Changampuzha Krishnapillai (
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai ).
>>> He passed away in 1948, and hence it is 65 years after the author's
>>> death.
>>> So the books are copyright-free in India as of now (in pubic domain).
>>> But they
>>>
>>> were not published before 1923
>>> were not in the public domain in India as of 1 January 1996 ( because
>>> criteria of "60 years after author's death" not satisfied on 1996)
>>>
>>> Hence they are not in public domain according to US Laws. So we cannot
>>> store
>>> them in US servers.
>>>
>>> The main problem is India considers copyright based on date of author's
>>> death and US does it based on date of publication.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Balasankar C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/5/10 Srikanth Ramakrishnan <srik.ramk-AeOJrEpdGNeacSAJ64KLvA@public.gmane.org>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Balasankar,
>>>> Can you point out specific instances and show when and where the book or
>>>> publication was first published? If the works are still copyrighted in
>>>> India, then they should be copyrighted in the US as well, generally
>>>> speaking. The term India awards to creators is lesser than the one
>>>> provided
>>>> in the US under copyright laws.
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath
>>>> <c.balasankar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> As most of you know, the Indian copyright law says that a book gets
>>>>> relieved of copyright after 60 years from the author's death. But this
>>>>> is
>>>>> not the case with US Law. As given here , of all the works published
>>>>> outside
>>>>> US, only those published before 1923 are directly in the public domain.
>>>>> The
>>>>> ones published between 1923 and 1977 without compliance to the US
>>>>> formalities will be in the public domain only if they are in the public
>>>>> domain in their source country as of 1 January 1996. Almost all the
>>>>> other
>>>>> categories of published works will not be in the public domain until 95
>>>>> years after publishing.
>>>>>
>>>>> This induces a confusion and when looked in a legal perspective, most
>>>>> of
>>>>> the books in Indian Wikisources, are still not in public domain and
>>>>> hence
>>>>> must be removed. This makes a huge negative impact on the hard work
>>>>> done by
>>>>> contributors. Their contributions are wasted which may cause them to
>>>>> stop
>>>>> contributing. In short, this may be a negative impact on Wikimedia's
>>>>> image
>>>>> in the society.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only solution to this problem is to host the servers of Indian
>>>>> Wikimedia services in India, so that the data we upload is stored under
>>>>> Indian Laws. Can Wikimedia India Chapter do anything on this? We can
>>>>> plan
>>>>> and conduct a fundraiser in India to raise money for the hosting
>>>>> expenses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please consider this issue with maximum priority as it involves legal
>>>>> procedures and related headaches.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Balasankar C
>>>>> https://ml.wikisource.org/wiki/User:Balasankarc
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Balasankar C
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Srikanth Ramakrishnan
>>>> Treasurer,
>>>> Wikimedia Chapter [India]
>>>>
>>>> Donate to the Wikimedia India Chapter today
>>>>
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