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Blech Nic | 1 Sep 2008 22:45
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Re: NYT flattery

Or maybe both Dowd and Wikipedia simply got it from People, the source Wikipedia lists for the quote.

B.

"Where do your children's names come from?
TODD: Sarah's parents were coaches and the whole family was involved in track
and I was an athlete in high school, so with our first-born, I was,
like, 'Track!' Bristol is named after Bristol Bay. That's
where I grew up, that's where we commercial fish. Willow is a community
there in Alaska. And then Piper, you know, there's just not too many
Pipers out there and it's a cool name. And Trig is a Norse name for
"strength."

----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Summit <scs@...>
To: wikien-l@...
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 6:54:04 AM
Subject: [WikiEN-l] NYT flattery

[If "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", I'm thinking
close paraphrase is a pretty good second.]

Liberal commentators are of course having a field day with the
nomination of [[Sarah Palin]] for the U.S. vice-presidency.
The NYT's dishy Maureen Dowd compared the situation to a
deliciously hokey chick flick, including this description
of the heroine's kids:

    Track (named after high school track meets), Bristol
    (after Bristol Bay where they did commercial fishing),
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Philip Sandifer | 2 Sep 2008 17:07
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Article subpages

I'm working on a proposal to try to add some sanity to our notability  
procedures, and to better organize our coverage of areas where we  
have, essentially, multiple articles on a single topic. It uses a  
template-based system that duplicates much of the functionality of  
subpages.

More about it later - I'm still working on some aspects of it. All I  
want to know for now is what the logic was on deprecating subpages in  
the article space, and what the technical decision to turn off  
MediaWiki's subpages means for content issues.

That is, is the decision to turn off subpages just at technical  
decision because of the problem it causes for articles like [[OS/2]]?  
Is there a consensus on the content issues of subpages? What is this  
consensus, and where can I read its forming so that I can make my  
proposal adhere to it, or make it so that accepting my proposal  
definitely and clearly alters it?

Thanks,
Phil Sandifer

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Risker | 2 Sep 2008 18:57
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Re: Article subpages

On 02/09/2008, Philip Sandifer <snowspinner@...> wrote:
>
> I'm working on a proposal to try to add some sanity to our notability
> procedures, and to better organize our coverage of areas where we
> have, essentially, multiple articles on a single topic. It uses a
> template-based system that duplicates much of the functionality of
> subpages.
>
> More about it later - I'm still working on some aspects of it. All I
> want to know for now is what the logic was on deprecating subpages in
> the article space, and what the technical decision to turn off
> MediaWiki's subpages means for content issues.
>
> That is, is the decision to turn off subpages just at technical
> decision because of the problem it causes for articles like [[OS/2]]?
> Is there a consensus on the content issues of subpages? What is this
> consensus, and where can I read its forming so that I can make my
> proposal adhere to it, or make it so that accepting my proposal
> definitely and clearly alters it?

There are some real advantages to this concept, Phil. Interestingly, a
similar idea has recently been bandied about by User:Joopercoopers, as can
be seen at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Joopercoopers/Tabbed_articles

Perhaps the two of you could work together on this, particularly after the
technical questions have been answered.

Risker
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Gregory Maxwell | 2 Sep 2008 19:25
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Re: Article subpages

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Risker <risker.wp@...> wrote:
[snip]
> Perhaps the two of you could work together on this, particularly after the
> technical questions have been answered.

Technical questions?

AFAIR 'subpages' were only turned off because (1) their use in the
main namespace was discouraged, and (2) they goofed up articles like
[[OS/2]].

I don't think there is really any external-to-enwp-policy technical
factor why they should be disabled.

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AGK | 2 Sep 2008 19:35

Re: Article subpages

>
> I don't think there is really any external-to-enwp-policy technical
>
factor why they should be disabled.

No need to be so sceptical! Phil has ideas for sub pages, and was simply
enquiring about why they were turned off and/or if they can be turned back
on. I for one would like to see where this idea goes.

2008/9/2 Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@...>

> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Risker <risker.wp@...> wrote:
> [snip]
> > Perhaps the two of you could work together on this, particularly after
> the
> > technical questions have been answered.
>
> Technical questions?
>
> AFAIR 'subpages' were only turned off because (1) their use in the
> main namespace was discouraged, and (2) they goofed up articles like
> [[OS/2]].
>
> I don't think there is really any external-to-enwp-policy technical
> factor why they should be disabled.
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@...
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
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Angela | 2 Sep 2008 22:58
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Re: Article subpages

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 1:07 AM, Philip Sandifer
<snowspinner@...> wrote:
> That is, is the decision to turn off subpages just at technical
> decision because of the problem it causes for articles like [[OS/2]]?

It wasn't just a technical decision. The discussion about why it was
done can still be found at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Case_against_subpages and
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Get_rid_of_subpages_entirely and other
pages on meta linked from those.

Angela

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David Goodman | 3 Sep 2008 03:11
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Re: Article subpages

From the looks ofd that discussion, the main object was that it would
lead to content forks, or organizing related articles. The possible
use for specific types of auxiliary content, source as references or
data, does not seem to have been discussed there. I notice Larry
Sanger as a major participant--and Citizendium currently does use
subpages for those purposes among others.

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Angela <beesley@...> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 1:07 AM, Philip Sandifer
<snowspinner@...> wrote:
>> That is, is the decision to turn off subpages just at technical
>> decision because of the problem it causes for articles like [[OS/2]]?
>
> It wasn't just a technical decision. The discussion about why it was
> done can still be found at
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Case_against_subpages and
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Get_rid_of_subpages_entirely and other
> pages on meta linked from those.
>
> Angela
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@...
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--

-- 
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
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Nathan | 3 Sep 2008 04:35
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Re: Article subpages

Is it possible you misread this, AGK? I don't think he was being skeptical.

I think its an alternative is a good idea - actually I think subpages would
be a good idea as well, if a mechanism could be found to deal with articles
like OS/2. I've seen the issue discussed a few times over the last year or
so, but each time the main reason for shooting it down is the "community
consensus" against subpages. Angela's links present an opportunity and an
obstacle - if those are the only discussions in which consensus was formed,
then there is no "local" en.wp policy against it. The obstacle being, of
course, the meta-wiki consensus. If its disabled in MediaWiki, is there an
option to enable it or circumvent it technically (using templates, also
discussed on [[User_talk:Lar]]) just on en.wp?

Nathan

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 1:35 PM, AGK <agkwiki@...> wrote:

> >
> > I don't think there is really any external-to-enwp-policy technical
> >
> factor why they should be disabled.
>
>
> No need to be so sceptical! Phil has ideas for sub pages, and was simply
> enquiring about why they were turned off and/or if they can be turned back
> on. I for one would like to see where this idea goes.
>
>
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Philip Sandifer | 3 Sep 2008 05:42
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Re: Article subpages


On Sep 2, 2008, at 10:35 PM, Nathan wrote:

> Is it possible you misread this, AGK? I don't think he was being  
> skeptical.
>
> I think its an alternative is a good idea - actually I think  
> subpages would
> be a good idea as well, if a mechanism could be found to deal with  
> articles
> like OS/2. I've seen the issue discussed a few times over the last  
> year or
> so, but each time the main reason for shooting it down is the  
> "community
> consensus" against subpages. Angela's links present an opportunity  
> and an
> obstacle - if those are the only discussions in which consensus was  
> formed,
> then there is no "local" en.wp policy against it. The obstacle  
> being, of
> course, the meta-wiki consensus. If its disabled in MediaWiki, is  
> there an
> option to enable it or circumvent it technically (using templates,  
> also
> discussed on [[User_talk:Lar]]) just on en.wp?

Were we to circumvent it, templates would be the best way to do so, I  
am at this point convinced.

-Phil
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Florence Devouard | 4 Sep 2008 11:48
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vocabulary

Hello,

Not directly about Wikipedia, sorry :-)

I have a vocabulary question... and Wikipedia was not able to help me !!!

In French, we have a term "mécénat" which refers to the act for a person 
or a company to financially support a creator.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mécénat

This word exist in other languages, but there is apparently no english 
article. In our definition, Foundation (such as the Ford or the Gates 
Foundation) are mécènes, but a commercial company can also be directly a 
mécène.

We also use the term "sponsor" (or parrainage), which is a direct 
translation of the english term sponsor.

The definition of a "mécène" is not so different from the definition of 
a sponsor, though the French article hints that the "mecène" does that 
for philanthropic reasons, whilst the sponsor does that for commercial 
reasons. Except that within the articles, in both cases, it notices that 
both mécène and sponsors get financial benefits (deductibility etc...) 
and that both mécène and sponsors get benefits in terms of image.
So, I guess it is sometimes a bit tricky to know when a gift is a 
"mécenat" and when it is "sponsoring". But still, we try to make the 
differenciation. For WMF, the recent big donations would be "mécénat", 
whilst those giving money for Wikimania (with public recognition, thank 
yous, logo display etc...) are "sponsors".
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Gmane