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Oldak Quill | 1 Nov 2006 02:14
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Re: Excessive units converstion?

On 31/10/06, George Herbert <george.herbert@...> wrote:
> I just found this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_Capote#In Cold Blood
>
> Apparently some time ago, someone added a metric conversion (4 km^2)
> to the term "1,000 acres" in the quoted New York Times article.
>
> That's a direct historical quote - is an in-line metric units
> conversion appropriate within the quote?
>
> It seems to me like we shouldn't be doing that.
>
>
> --
> -george william herbert
> george.herbert@...
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> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

Would we not give a conversion if a historical quote gave a distance
in furlongs? Maybe not inline, but somewhere on the page.

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Oldak Quill (oldakquill@...)
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Fastfission | 1 Nov 2006 02:57
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Re: Excessive units converstion?

It's definitely pedantic beyond reason; it also gives far more
importance to the unit of measurement than the actual quote warrants.
But of course I'm sure people will crawl out of the woodwork if one
implies that if someone really needs to know how large 1,000 acres is
precisely (the implication from the sentence itself is that it is
pretty large for a farm, that's all you really need to know) that they
can convert it on their own time (which Google makes pretty easy these
days).

FF

On 10/31/06, George Herbert <george.herbert@...> wrote:
> I just found this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_Capote#In Cold Blood
>
> Apparently some time ago, someone added a metric conversion (4 km^2)
> to the term "1,000 acres" in the quoted New York Times article.
>
> That's a direct historical quote - is an in-line metric units
> conversion appropriate within the quote?
>
> It seems to me like we shouldn't be doing that.
>
>
> --
> -george william herbert
> george.herbert@...
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@...
(Continue reading)

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Ray Saintonge | 1 Nov 2006 02:54

Re: Excessive units converstion?

George Herbert wrote:

>I just found this:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_Capote#In Cold Blood
>
>Apparently some time ago, someone added a metric conversion (4 km^2)
>to the term "1,000 acres" in the quoted New York Times article.
>
>That's a direct historical quote - is an in-line metric units
>conversion appropriate within the quote?
>
>It seems to me like we shouldn't be doing that.
>
It's a questionable practice.  It is in square brackets to show that 
it's an addition, but I think a footnote would be better in this case.  
Why too is it in km^2 instead of hectares?

Ec

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Keith Old | 1 Nov 2006 06:58
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Intellipedia the intelligence version of Wikipedia launched

Folks,

C/Net reports that the US intelligence community has launched its version of
Wikipedia.

http://news.com.com/Intelligence+czar+unveils+spy+version+of+Wikipedia/2100-7348_3-6131309.html

*The U.S. intelligence community on Tuesday unveiled its own secretive
version of Wikipedia, saying the popular online encyclopedia format known
for its openness is key to the future of American espionage.*

The office of U.S. intelligence czar John Negroponte announced Intellipedia,
which allows intelligence analysts and other officials to collaboratively
add and edit content on the government's classified Intelink Web much like
its more famous namesake on the
Web<http://news.com.com/Study+Wikipedia+as+accurate+as+Britannica/2100-1038_3-5997332.html?tag=nl>.

A "top secret" Intellipedia system, currently available to the 16 agencies
that make up the U.S. intelligence community, has grown to more than 28,000
pages and 3,600 registered users since its introduction on April 17. Less
restrictive versions exist for "secret" and "sensitive but unclassified"
material.

The system is also available to the Transportation Security Administration
and national laboratories.

Intellipedia is currently being used to assemble a major intelligence
report, known as a national intelligence estimate, on Nigeria as well as the
State Department's annual country reports on terrorism, officials said.
(Continue reading)

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Stan Shebs | 1 Nov 2006 07:21
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Re: Intellipedia the intelligence version of Wikipedia launched

Keith Old wrote:
> Folks,
>
> C/Net reports that the US intelligence community has launched its version of
> Wikipedia.
>
> [...]
>   
> I wonder what happens to vandals.
>   
Medals of Freedom, apparently.

:-/

Stan (soon to be shebs@...)

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Ray Saintonge | 1 Nov 2006 08:58

Re: Intellipedia the intelligence version of Wikipedia launched

Fantastic.  Over the years there have been these recurring stories about 
spies who go so caught up looking for secret information that they 
forgot to take into account the information that was already available.

A few years ago it was only low ranking USAF personnel that was trying 
to use Wikipedia to find out about the missiles on her base.  So now it 
has reached the highest levels that Wikipedia information is superior to 
what is discovered by military intelligence. ;-)

Ec

Keith Old wrote:

>Folks,
>
>C/Net reports that the US intelligence community has launched its version of
>Wikipedia.
>
>http://news.com.com/Intelligence+czar+unveils+spy+version+of+Wikipedia/2100-7348_3-6131309.html
>
>*The U.S. intelligence community on Tuesday unveiled its own secretive
>version of Wikipedia, saying the popular online encyclopedia format known
>for its openness is key to the future of American espionage.*
>
>The office of U.S. intelligence czar John Negroponte announced Intellipedia,
>which allows intelligence analysts and other officials to collaboratively
>add and edit content on the government's classified Intelink Web much like
>its more famous namesake on the
>Web<http://news.com.com/Study+Wikipedia+as+accurate+as+Britannica/2100-1038_3-5997332.html?tag=nl>.
>
(Continue reading)

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Simon Blandford | 1 Nov 2006 10:11

Re: User responds to personal talk in three places at once

Hi Angela,

Really appreciate your intervention and the advice of others who have 
replied. I think I can safely add a link to my own talk page to the 
other talk page.

I will post specific links in future, thanks for the advice.

Thanks & regards,
bksimonb

Angela wrote:
> On 10/31/06, Earle Martin <wikipedia@...> wrote:
>   
>> I'd say replace the copies on your talk page and the article
>> discussion with links to the user's talk page. Replying to all three
>> is inviting a forest fire.
>>     
>
> I agree. I just removed it from the article talk page citing the same
> forest fire reason.
>
> Simon - it would help if you gave links in future to explain what
> you're talking about. :)
>
> Angela.
> _______________________________________________
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Matthew Brown | 1 Nov 2006 10:36
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Re: Excessive units converstion?

On 10/31/06, George Herbert <george.herbert@...> wrote:
> Apparently some time ago, someone added a metric conversion (4 km^2)
> to the term "1,000 acres" in the quoted New York Times article.
>
> That's a direct historical quote - is an in-line metric units
> conversion appropriate within the quote?

In quotes, I think that units conversion should be a footnote; I'd
rather keep the integrity of the quote.  However, a conversion should
definitely be there.  People constantly complain about metric
conversions, but they're useful to the fairly large proportion of the
world's population with no conception of US traditional units (or UK
Imperial units).  1000 acres means absolutely nothing to most EU
residents, for instance.

Conversions should be rough approximations when the original figure is
an approximation, of course, as this one clearly is.

As to why km^2 instead of hectares, that was a long flamewar; suffice
to say that hectares, as a non-SI unit, are to some degree deprecated
and thus disliked by the SI-unit advocates that do most of the unit
conversion work.  There was broad consensus to use hectares in
instances where they are an officially-sanctioned unit (e.g. France)
but km^2 conversions are also used in most of those.

-Matt
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charles.r.matthews | 1 Nov 2006 12:25

Re: Intellipedia the intelligence version of Wikipedia launched

Very 'Billion Dollar Brain'.

John le Carre, of course, had his equivalent, which was an alcohol-sodden woman with cats and no life, who
had apparently memorised the Circus's database. 

I don't know why the spooks didn't get to wiki before WP. It's obviously ideal, when trying to sort the wheat
from the chaff, to try to get NPOV pages, with Talk and sourced information. 

Charles

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charles.r.matthews | 1 Nov 2006 12:28

Re: Excessive units converstion?

"Matthew Brown" wrote

> 1000 acres means absolutely nothing to most EU
> residents, for instance.

Right. If I hadn't once owned 100 of moorland myself, I'd have no real idea either. (An acre is roughly 70
yards square, but who even knows that? And Ray is right about hectares.)

But don't mess with the verbatim quote: slippery slope there.

Charles

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