David Russell | 1 Oct 01:36 2006
Picon

Re: Citationgate: expertise and verifiability


Delirium wrote:
> Well, that's why I think we *should* have review processes of some 
> sort.  Then if a reader sees an unreviewed article, they are indeed in 
> the situation you describe.  But if a reader sees an article that has 
> been reviewed as at least "pretty good" by people who know something 
> about the field, then they can rest assured that nothing obvious is 
> wrong about it.  For what it's worth, I do think we should have a 
> different process of reviewing than good/featured, but that's been 
> talked about at length before.
> 
> (snip)
> -Mark

Yeah but people still wouldn't know if the article had changed since it
was deemed 'pretty good'.

Cynical
Stephen Bain | 1 Oct 02:20 2006
Picon

Re: Seth Finkelstein in the Technology Guardian

On 10/1/06, Sean Barrett <sean@...> wrote:
>
> It's become fairly clear that, once even a tiny number of Wikipedians
> decide that you must have an article, it is all-but-entirely impossible
> to get it removed or even cleaned up by working within the system.  Very
> nearly the only way to proceed is by legal threats and OFFICE protection.
>
> I would welcome a counter-example.

Well, without wanting to preempt the outcome of DRV, Gregory Lauder-Frost.

Although I do agree with you generally, it's an unfortunate situation
but, I think, inevitable when there is a lack of any standards or
principles to be applied in cases of borderline notability (which
underlies most of these cases).

--

-- 
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain@...
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@...
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

daniwo59 | 1 Oct 04:27 2006
Picon

Porchesia

I have posted this to foundation, but for those who do not know--

Today I deleted the article [[Porchesia]], which was created on November  23, 
2005, i.e., 10 months ago. The article described an island off the coast of  
Lebanon with a population of over 300,000. The languages are Arabic, Greek, 
and  English.

I will gladly restore the article when someone finds me one source  verifying 
the facts of this article. You might start by finding Porchesia on a  map. 

Danny
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@...
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Mark Gallagher | 1 Oct 05:42 2006
Picon
Picon

Re: Interesting article on Alexa


G'day David,

> Given the number of people who seem to use Alexa 'rankings' as the basis
> of an Afd decision on website articles, I thought you guys might be
> interested in this article:
> 
> http://www.johnchow.com/index.php/why-alexa-is-worthless/
> 
> It has been clear for a long time that Alexa 'rankings' are utter crap,
> as they are based not on website visitors and links (as Google or Yahoo
> rankings are) but on the activities of those infected with Alexa's
> spyware-esque toolbar.

Pray allow me to be the first to drop the facade of maturity and cry 
out: "Well, DUH!"

Alexa is now, always has been, and almost certainly will be in the 
future, utterly useless ... their rankings *and* their stupid little 
toolbar.  Anyone silly enough to take the rankings at face value needs 
to be whacked with a Cluebat.

--

-- 
Mark Gallagher
"I've got to start listening to those quiet, nagging doubts."
  -- Calvin & Hobbes

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@...
(Continue reading)

zero 0000 | 1 Oct 07:06 2006
Picon

Re: Citationgate: expertise and verifiability

It is clearly true, and not at all silly, that some
facts in articles do not need sources to be given.
However, the criterion "widely accepted" suggested
here is not enough.  For a fact to not need a
citation it should be widely accepted, uncontroversial,
and very easy to check.  The last criterion is maybe
the important one.

For example, if an article mentions Paris as the
capital of France then it does NOT need to cite a
geography book as verification that Paris is indeed
the capital of France.  Similarly, an article should
be able to refer to the revolution of the Earth
around the Sun without citing an astronomy journal.

Zero.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@...
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

David Mestel | 1 Oct 08:34 2006
Picon

Re: Corporate vanity policy enforcement

Maybe we need some kind of speedy deletion process for organisations
which are not notable, but which do assert notability.  Of course,
there would need to be safeguards - perhaps allow any established
editor (>500 edits for the sake of argument) to remove the tag or have
the article undeleted without discussion, like a prod undeletion.
This would mean that we could remove many more articles about nn
organisations and people without having to go through a five-day AfD,
but anything which was notable enough for at least one established
editor to support it would still get the benefit of full AfD process
and discussion.

On 29/09/06, Brad Patrick <bpatrick@...> wrote:
> Dear Community:
>
> The volume of corporate vanity/vandalism which is showing up on
> Wikipedia is overwhelming.  At the office, we are receiving dozens of
> phone calls *per week* about company, organization, and marketing edits
> which are reverted, causing the non-notable, but self-aggrandizing
> authors, to scream bloody murder.  This is as it should be.  However, I
> am issuing a call to arms to the community to act in a much more
> draconian fashion in response to corporate self-editing and vanity page
> creation.  This is simply out of hand, and we need your help.
>
> We are the #14 website in the world.  We are a big target.  If we are to
> remain true to our encyclopedic mission, this kind of nonsense cannot be
> tolerated.  This means the administrators and new page patrol need to be
> clear when they see new usernames and page creation which are blatantly
> commercial - shoot on sight.  There should be no question that someone
> who claims to have a "famous movie studio" and has exactly 2 Google hits
> - both their Myspace page - they get nuked.  Ban users who promulgate
(Continue reading)

David Mestel | 1 Oct 08:43 2006
Picon

Re: Porchesia

I'm pretty certain it's a hoax - there's no mention of it in the CIA
world factbook entry for Lebanon, and a Google search gives no
relevant hits.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/le.html
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Porchesia+-wikipedia&hl=en&lr=&rls=GEUA,GEUA:2005-47,GEUA:en&as_qdr=all&start=10&sa=N

On 01/10/06, daniwo59@... <daniwo59@...> wrote:
> I have posted this to foundation, but for those who do not know--
>
> Today I deleted the article [[Porchesia]], which was created on November  23,
> 2005, i.e., 10 months ago. The article described an island off the coast of
> Lebanon with a population of over 300,000. The languages are Arabic, Greek,
> and  English.
>
> I will gladly restore the article when someone finds me one source  verifying
> the facts of this article. You might start by finding Porchesia on a  map.
>
> Danny
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l@...
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>

--

-- 
David
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
(Continue reading)

MacGyverMagic/Mgm | 1 Oct 09:50 2006
Picon

Re: Interesting article on Alexa

Well, obviously it shouldn't be used as the sole way of making a decision,
but if it has a high Alexa rank, it means a lot of people who use that Alexa
toolbar visit the site. That should give some indication. Also, if none of
them visit a certain site that says something as well.

Google is often useless as well, because of it's sensitivity to being
googlebombed and abused in other ways.

One shouldn't use any single indicator alone to make a decision.

Mgm

On 10/1/06, Mark Gallagher <m.g.gallagher@...> wrote:
>
>
> G'day David,
>
> > Given the number of people who seem to use Alexa 'rankings' as the basis
> > of an Afd decision on website articles, I thought you guys might be
> > interested in this article:
> >
> > http://www.johnchow.com/index.php/why-alexa-is-worthless/
> >
> > It has been clear for a long time that Alexa 'rankings' are utter crap,
> > as they are based not on website visitors and links (as Google or Yahoo
> > rankings are) but on the activities of those infected with Alexa's
> > spyware-esque toolbar.
>
> Pray allow me to be the first to drop the facade of maturity and cry
> out: "Well, DUH!"
(Continue reading)

Stephen Streater | 1 Oct 10:24 2006
Picon

Re: Interesting article on Alexa


On 1 Oct 2006, at 08:50, MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:

> Well, obviously it shouldn't be used as the sole way of making a  
> decision,
> but if it has a high Alexa rank, it means a lot of people who use  
> that Alexa
> toolbar visit the site. That should give some indication. Also, if  
> none of
> them visit a certain site that says something as well.

In my cases it indicates that the UK Broadcasters
don't allow installation of the Alexa toolbar,
and that Alexa doesn't count iframe hits. As with
all these things, there will always be cases where
the raw figures are misleading.
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@...
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Guy Chapman aka JzG | 1 Oct 10:50 2006
Picon

Re: Corporate vanity policy enforcement

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:53:02 -0400, Brad Patrick
<bpatrick@...> wrote:

>The volume of corporate vanity/vandalism which is showing up on 
>Wikipedia is overwhelming.

I hear you.  Perhaps that long discussed speedy criterion for
"advertisements masquerading as articles" should be introduced.

Guy (JzG)
--

-- 
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l@...
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


Gmane