Re: Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

On 6/30/06, Jon Awbrey <jawbrey@...> wrote:
> It is of course the knee-jerk response of WP editors who are novices
> in a given subject area to declare anything they haven't heard of to
> be "Original Research".  Normal practice is to ask for citations of
> things that you may have doubts about.  All of this stuff has been
> in print for 100 to 130 years.  If setting some of this stuff into
> the form of Wiki Tables constitutes "originality", then I worry
> about the wrath of the gods for all our sakes.

Am I right in saying you're unhappy because people keep removing text
on the grounds that it goes over the heads of Wikipedia's editors?
What else should they do with it? Leave it, taking on good faith the
fact that it is indeed substantiated by some uncited sources?

I don't see that we can, in good faith, leave material we can't
comprehend, which we suspect of being totally original research.
Moving it to the talk page with a detailed explanation of why is
exactly the right thing to do.

Steve
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Re: Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

> I on the other hand am wondering whether we shouldn't consider putting
> Mr Awbrey on moderation, in an effort to increase the signal to noise
> ratio on this list. I appreciate your good faith effort to get
> something out of this "exit interview", but if you look at the thread
> as a whole, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

General: Away, away!
Police: Yes, yes, we go!
General: These pirates slay!
Police: Tarantara!
General: Then do not stay!
Police: Tarantara!
General: Then why this delay!
Police: All right, we go! Yes forward, Yes, forward on the foe, on  
the foe, Yes, forward on the foe!
General: Yes, but you _don't_ go!
Girls: They go, they go!
Police: We go, we go! Yes forward, Yes, forward on the foe, on the  
foe, Yes, forward on the foe!
General: Damme, you _don't_ go!
Girls: At last they go,
Police: We go, we go,
Girls: At last they go, at last they go!
Police: We go, we go,
Girls: At last they really, really go!
Police: We go, we go, we go, we go!

--W. S. Gilbert, "The Pirates of Penzance"

Re: Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o

Genus:    Priority Inversion
Species:  Pseudo-Consensus Overturning the Big Three (and the Five Pillars)

Case 8.

Article:  Truth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth

Section:  Correspondence theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth#Correspondence_theory

This is a complex series of edits and requires a bit of background.

Some time ago I placed a POV tag on the article, asserting that the article
is biased toward (1) a particular POV and (2) a particular theory of truth.

1.  The POV in question is the POV of analytic philosophy, which
    from its beginning and to this day relies almost exclusively
    on the methods of linguistic analysis, consequently ignoring
    or dismissing almost every problem of philosophy that is not
    especially well handled by its favorite method.  In short,
    it suffers from a "have screwdriver, try to screw everything"
    variety of POV myopia.

2.  The theory of truth in question is the "correspondence theory of truth"
    that is being discussed in this section.  The complaint that I have made
    is that even several other theories of truth are discussed, they are all
    described and evaluated only in so far as they can be characterized from

Re: Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o

daniel,

please provide guidance,
is what you added the
very modern model
of signal,
or noise?

ja

Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:
> 
> > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey
> 
> > I on the other hand am wondering whether we shouldn't consider putting
> > Mr Awbrey on moderation, in an effort to increase the signal to noise
> > ratio on this list.  I appreciate your good faith effort to get
> > something out of this "exit interview", but if you look at the
> > thread as a whole, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
> 
> General: Away, away!
> Police: Yes, yes, we go!
> General: These pirates slay!
> Police: Tarantara!
> General: Then do not stay!
> Police: Tarantara!
> General: Then why this delay!
> Police: All right, we go! Yes forward, Yes, forward on the foe, on

Re: Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

On Jun 30, 2006, at 4:26 AM, Steve Bennett wrote:
> On 6/30/06, Jesse W <jessw@...> wrote:
>> I would be very curious to hear Mr. Awbrey's preference for an
>> alternative, either one of the ones above, or another one I have not
>> mentioned.
>
> I on the other hand am wondering whether we shouldn't consider putting
> Mr Awbrey on moderation, in an effort to increase the signal to noise
> ratio on this list. I appreciate your good faith effort to get
> something out of this "exit interview", but if you look at the thread
> as a whole, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
Re-reading the whole thread, I've come to agree with you.  Mr. Awbrey 
seems to be upset that he attempted to convince some people that 
certain parts of an article should be changed, failed, and was thereby 
unable to make his changes stick.  This is painful for him, but not a 
problem for Wikipedia.  This will be my last message in this thread.

Jesse Weinstein

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Re: Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o

JA = Jon Awbrey
MB = Matt Brown

Matt,

I will have to work my way through your comments bit by bit,
as my time on line will be very intermittent over the next
few days.

Matt Brown wrote:
> 
Rob: On 6/30/06, Rob <gamaliel8@...> wrote:
>  > If the majority of editors on the page agree that the block quote
>  > is inappropriate, this is concensus.   If you disagree with this
>  > decision, you can initiate a discussion on the talk page, and
>  > ideally  these editors would discuss the issue with you.
>  >
MB: I'm still trying to sort out exactly what your complaints are,
> > so I don't want to accuse you of saying or advocating something
> > you are not saying, as I inadvertantly did regarding the 3RR.
> > So I have some questions:  What would have been the ideal outcome
> > in this case?  Do you think the editors should be forced to discuss
> > the issue with you before removing this block quote?  Do you think
> > consensus should not be used to guide decisions regarding Wikipedia
> > content?  If so, then what decision making process should replace it?

JA: I've been presenting the sequence of events in the Charles Peirce case
    roughly in the order that I actually experienced it.  People who want

Re: Offline submissions?

Wait...what's wrong with white people? =D

On 6/30/06, Fastfission <fastfission@...> wrote:
>
> While this sounds like a nice, lofty, all-inclusive notion -- the sort
> which would be popular amongst white, male, technically-inclided,
> middle class, intellectual-pursuing English speakers -- I'm not so
> sure it would be worth the trouble to establish an infrastructure to
> accomodate it.
>
> How are these participants supposed to know about Wikipedia, much less
> be able to read it and integrate their content into it in a useful
> way? How are we supposed to solicit their contributions? Do we have
> evidence that this is actually a problem that needs to be solved in a
> systematic way? Is this a problem looking for a solution or a solution
> looking for a problem?
>
> I'm all for inclusivity and being aware of our biases and trying to
> encourage working around them.* I'm not sure this is really the best
> use of our (human) resources. I'll be frank and say it sounds a little
> half-baked to me.
>
> FF
>
> *I'll also say that I think the idea that content is necessarily
> determined by the demographics of your contributors is also a bit too
> reductionist, and mimics some of the really tragic movements in
> academia in the 1960s and 1970s which let in a lot of really bad
> scholarship and really wooly thinking under the banner of inclusivity.
> I think we should always take care to judge our contributors on the

Re: SPEEDYING images Re: Jimbo's rule, copyright, old images with permission only

Pedro Sanchez wrote:
> On 6/29/06, Pedro Sanchez <pdsanchez@...> wrote:
>   
>> On 6/29/06, Anthony <wikilegal@...> wrote:
>>     
>>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>>> WikiEN-l@...
>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>>>
>>>       
>> something strange is that it shows images I've reverted as mine
>> (several fair-use images I didn't upload, merely reverted some
>> vandalism) ~~~~
>>
>>     
>
> Also, what do "shadow commons" do? It seems to attemp to insert
> {{ShadowCommons}} on the en: image, but suchtemplate doesn't exist.
>   

It's used on de to mark an image that blocks a different image from
commons with the same name.

What's the correct template for that on en?

Magnus
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Re: SPEEDYING images Re: Jimbo's rule, copyright, old images with permission only

Theresa Knott wrote:
> On 6/29/06, Magnus Manske <magnus.manske@...> wrote:
>   
>> Anthony schrieb:
>>     
>>> On 6/28/06, Pedro Sanchez <pdsanchez@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Well, my point is, why aren't these being speedied like the new ones?
>>>> If giving time for finding replacements was the issue, plenty of time
>>>> has been given, (yet precisely since they were kept, noone is
>>>> bothering to find free replacements).
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Is there somewhere I can get a list of the images I've uploaded which
>>> don't fall under the current tagging rules?
>>>
>>> Is there even a place where I can get a list of the images I've uploaded?
>>>
>>>       
>> http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/pushforcommons.php?language=en&wikiuser=Your_user_name_on_en
>>
>> will show all your images on en, and tries to guess their status by the
>> used tags/templates. If it doesn't recognize a specific tag correctly,
>> please tell me so I can fix it.
>>
>> Magnus
>>     
>
> Can it be used to find images on wikibooks?

Re: Exit Interview -- Jon Awbrey

Jon Awbrey wrote:
> o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
> 
> daniel,
> 
> please provide guidance,
> is what you added the
> very modern model
> of signal,
> or noise?
> 

The SNR of your posts is about -10dB. Please stop.

--

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