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Patrick Norton | 1 Sep 2002 02:33
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Re: BIRD BONE ID

Just testing Dave M's email address.... 

----- Original Message -----
From: David Marjanovic
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 5:17 PM
To: The Dinosaur Mailing List
Subject: Re: BIRD BONE ID

I guess it's the os humeroscapularis, a sesamoid ( = tendon ossification,
like a kneecap) that's mentioned below as the origin of the M. deltoideus
maior pars cranialis in *Sturnus vulgaris*; it's located "dorsal to the
humeral head and immediately posterior to the supracoracoideus tendon" (p.
322).

Alan J. Sokoloff, Jennifer Gray-Chickering, Jason D. Harry, Samuel O. Poore
& George E. Goslow, Jr.: The function of the supracoracoideus muscle during
takeoff in the European starling (*Sturnus vulgaris*): Maxheinz Sy
revisited, 319 -- 332 in Jacques Gauthier & Lawrence F. Gall (eds): New
Perspectives on the Origin and Early Evolution of Birds. Proceedings of the
International Symposium in Honor of John H. Ostrom, Yale Peabody Museum 2001
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T. Michael Keesey | 1 Sep 2002 02:56
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Re: Epidendrosaurus, Systematic Observations pt. 1

--- "Jaime A. Headden" <qilongia <at> yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>   http://qilong.8m.com/Epidendrosaurus_ningchengensis_skeleton.jpg.

Those are some long arms! The paper dismisses the idea that it could engage in
flapping flight because the manus is too long. What does the list think?

Seems to fit well with Dial's wing-assisted vertical running suggestion. I
wonder if it might have had semi-wings, a la some of the Yixian
_Eumaniraptora_. The third (or is it fourth...) manual digit might have become
elongated to reach beyond the feathers, although why I have no idea.
(Just some idle speculations.)

=====
=====> T. Michael Keesey <keesey <at> bigfoot.com>
=====> The Dinosauricon <http://dinosauricon.com>
=====> BloodySteak <http://bloodysteak.com>
=====> Instant Messenger <Ric Blayze>
=====

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NJPharris | 1 Sep 2002 03:31
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Re: BBC NEWS Science-Nature Cold spelt end of dinosaurs

In a message dated 8/30/02 6:24:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
tuckr <at> digital.net writes:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2225779.stm
> 
And if the plant-eating dinosaurs weren't cold blooded?

Besides, if all I had to eat were cold spelt, it would probably be the end of 
me, too.

--Nick P.
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Jaime A. Headden | 1 Sep 2002 06:47
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Re: Epidendrosaurus, Systematic Observations pt. 1

Mike Keesey (keesey <at> bigfoot.com) wrote:

<Those are some long arms! The paper dismisses the idea that it could
engage in flapping flight because the manus is too long. What does the the
list think?>

  I think the shoulder girdle, which is plesiomorphic and resembles that
of *Compsognathus* and *Sinosauropteryx*, lacking the lateral glenoid,
distally expanded scapula indicating it was situated on the lateral
rib-cage, no acromion "prong", as well as any evidence of a semi-lunate
(if adult) would seriously hamper this. If juvenile, we would need to see
the adult, which may be more explanatory in this respect. The ulna is also
sigmoid, rather than bowed outward along its length. Curious....

  Cheers,

=====
Jaime A. Headden

  Little steps are often the hardest to take.  We are too used to making leaps in the face of adversity, that a
simple skip is so hard to do.  We should all learn to walk soft, walk small, see the world around us rather than
zoom by it.

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Mickey Rowe | 1 Sep 2002 09:01
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Dinosaur List Administrative Messge

This file was last edited Nov 2nd, 2001.

// As always, comments on policy are welcomed as long as they are made
// to the list-owners and not to the list.  On August 27th, I added
// this sentence to try to make sure this gets past the "no duplicate
// message" filter on September 1st. -- MPR

Rather than sending the whole long administrative message each month
I'm going to give you only the table of contents and the two sections
that I expect to be the most popular.  If you wish to see the entire
document you can visit it at any time at:

http://www.dinosaurmailinglist.org

-------------------------

Contents:

1.  How to unsubscribe
2.  How to subscribe
3.  How to receive the list as a digest
4.  How to access the archives
5.  What to do when you're going on vacation
6.  How to change your address for the list
7.  How to send messages to the list
8.  Things not to do and what will happen if you do them
9.  What to do if you're not getting mail
10.  Where to get more information

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Dino Guy Ralph | 1 Sep 2002 18:03
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If not "Raptors," then what?

Is there a name for sickle clawed dinosaurs that would include
_Sinornithosaurus_, _Deinonychus_, and _Velociraptor_, but exclude
troodontids?  Is "non-troodontid deinonychosaurs" the best we can do?
And would _Microraptor_ be part of this group?

---------Ralph W. Miller III
              ralph.miller <at> alumni.usc.edu
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Dino Guy Ralph | 1 Sep 2002 18:18
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Tyrannosaur #1 pedal digit and hollow bones

It seems that every mount of _Tyrannosaurus_ I have seen gives these
tyrannosaurids reversed #1 pedal phalanxes, so that the first toe (the
one off the ground) opposes the other three toes as in perching birds
(though off the ground, so there could not be a grasping function).  Is
this, in fact, how the phalanges articulate with the foot, or is it
impossible to tell?

Do other non-avian dinosaurs share this configuration?  I had assumed
that the tyrannosaur mounts were wrong, but if not I should like to find
this out.  If this is an error, it certainly is a common one (right up
there with absent furculae).

Question two: which of _T. rex_'s bones were hollow, and does this mean
that these bones were likely air filled in life, and connected to the
air sacs?

----------Ralph W. Miller III
                ralph.miller <at> alumni.usc.edu
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Stephan Pickering | 1 Sep 2002 18:47
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Geococcyx -- the roadrunner revisited

   Recently, on this forum, were brief discussions of
the roadrunner, and I made a note to go to my files,
to see if additional material could be useful.
L.M. Larson, 1930. Osteology of the California
road-runner Recent and Pleistocene. Univ. California
Publications in Zoology 32(4):409-428
Wayne Meinzer, 1993. The roadrunner (Texas Tech
University Press), 104pp
Janice M. Hughes, 1996. Greater roadrunner: Geococcyx
californianus. The birds of North America # 244
(American Ornithologists' Union/Academy of Natural
Sciences [Philadelphia]), 24pp
   Perhaps not germane, but, before his death, the
artist Marcel Delgado told me that, when he designed
the tyrannosaur for Willis O'Brien, there were two
versions: the one in the 1933 film (the only surviving
footage from the 1932 test reel, now lost), and a
refurbished model, with tail elevated above the ground
and back horizontal, an s-shaped neck supporting the
massive head (both based on Charles R. Knight's AMNH
mural).  Marcel took one photograph of the second
version, with the Kong 18 inch high puppet standing
beside the theropod, a log in its hand. OBie called it
a "roadrunner from hell", and wanted to refilm the
fight with the impossibly bipedal primate. Of course,
this never came to pass (RKO was near bankruptcy), and
all that remains is the photograph. Interestingly
enough, the 1933 tyrannosaur is nearly toothless.

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Noel D. Hill | 1 Sep 2002 20:27

Re: If not "Raptors," then what?

Dino Guy Ralph wrote:
> Is there a name for sickle clawed dinosaurs that would include
> _Sinornithosaurus_, _Deinonychus_, and _Velociraptor_, but exclude
> troodontids?  Is "non-troodontid deinonychosaurs" the best we can do?
> And would _Microraptor_ be part of this group?
> 
> ---------Ralph W. Miller III
>               ralph.miller <at> alumni.usc.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 

I always thought it was dromaeosauridea, a family of the microorder 
maniraptoria, infraorder tetanurae.
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Jaime A. Headden | 1 Sep 2002 21:16
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Re: If not "Raptors," then what?

Ralph W. Miller III (ralph.miller <at> alumni.usc.edu) wrote:

<<Is there a name for sickle clawed dinosaurs that would include
_Sinornithosaurus_, _Deinonychus_, and _Velociraptor_, but exclude
troodontids?  Is "non-troodontid deinonychosaurs" the best we can do? And
would _Microraptor_ be part of this group?>>

Noel D. Hill (ndexohill <at> imageantics.com) wrote:

<I always thought it was dromaeosauridea, a family of the microorder 
maniraptoria, infraorder tetanurae.>

  Er, I wonder if these are names that Kinman came up with (they sound
like his respellings...).

  No, this clade is not named, and Dromaeosauridae (note at the end where
the "a" and "e" are...) is currently used for a group that includes the
most recent common ancestor of *Dromaeosaurus albertensis* Matthew and
Brown, 1922 + *Deinonychus antirrhopus* Ostrom, 1969.

  Operationally, in recent cladograms, Xu et al. has used the term to
refer to a much broader clade that is in fact equivalent to a stem
opposing Troodontidae and birds: if its closer to *Velociraptor* than
anything else not like it, it's a dromaeosaurid. But one of these clades
would not be named in such a case, and it appears that both
Deinonychosaurian stems need names, or their included nodes. We will see.

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