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Mark W. Walton | 1 May 2005 03:52
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Re: Re: VIA #88 close call

It's not always suicide. Sometimes people are walking along a track 
while wearing headphones and playing music so loud they can't hear an 
oncoming train or its horn. In a recent case in Manitoba, a head-end 
crew member threw a water bottle from the cab into the back of the head 
of a woman who was walking along the tracks. She was wearing headphones 
and probably never heard the train coming. She jumped clear just in the 
nick of time.

Mark Walton
mark.walton@...

---- Original Message ----
From: Terry
To: Canadian-Passenger-Rail@...
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 12:26 PM
Subject: [CanPassRail] Re: VIA #88 close call

> Experiencing something like a suicide is horrible
> you just feel so helpless. However that nights situation
> actually had us feeling pretty good, quick thinking on the
> part of the police and us saved this woman from taking her
> life. Both the officer and myself were pretty happy that
> a tragedy was averted. Hopefully this individual will now be
> able to get some help.
>
> Terry, 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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David Jeanes | 1 May 2005 04:41
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Possible original intention for the CPR stainless steel cars

On 30/04/2005 21:17, "R.L.Kennedy" <r.l.kennedy@...> wrote:

> On what do you base this assumption? It took 15 sets of equipment to
> operate these two trains between Montreal and Vancouver plus the sets
> between Toronto and Sudbury. 15x12=180 this is more than the total
> order with nothing for Toronto-Sudbury.

In my original post, I didn't mean to imply that both consists east of
Sudbury would also be the full 12 cars.  I was looking at the requirements
for the Canadian, (7 sets plus 2 to Toronto). If you double this, it matches
the 18 baggage, Skyline, dining, and Park cars in the order.

The 71 sleepers and 30 coaches, (excluding Tourist sleepers), were enough to
run 5 sleepers and 2 coaches in each of 14 sets, (with one Chateau and two
coaches spare). This would mean 11 cars on all trains west of Sudbury.

East of Sudbury the sleepers and coaches could have divided among shorter
consists.  Say 8 cars to Montreal and 7 to Toronto or vice versa.

So I should have said 11 cars per train, instead of 12. However, when the 22
Tourist sleepers were added, they could have been split 2-1 among 7 12-car
and 7 13-car consists, with one spare.

The above seemed to me to be a reasonable explanation for the number of cars
of each type in the original order.

Don has different calculations, based on much more detailed information and
analysis, but I think he was just commenting on my use of the number 12,
rather than necessarily endorsing it.
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David Jeanes | 1 May 2005 04:48
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Re: Double Bedrooms

On 30/04/2005 17:18, "viachrisrail" <viachrisrail@...> wrote:

> In past years when I have travelled The Canadian in a Double Bedroom,
> or taken the Ocean in a Doube Bedroom the description of the
> accomodation on the tickets was "DOUBLE BEDROOM D" (with D being the
> room number).  This year when I purchased my tickets for a trip on The
> Canadian later this summer the description simply reads "TWO BEDS".
> 
> Is this a mistake or is it a change that they have made since my last
> trip?

This just happened to me this week as well.  When I noticed it and enquired,
it turned out that there was a change of bedroom in Jasper, due to an
additional car being added there.  The ticket agent in Ottawa was able to
get real bedroom numbers by issuing a separate ticket coupon for each leg of
the journey.  However he had to make a call to the reservations centre to
figure out what was going on and how to do this.

David Jeanes

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davidmississauga | 1 May 2005 05:44
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Re: Double Bedrooms

--- In Canadian-Passenger-Rail@..., "viachrisrail" 
<viachrisrail <at> y...> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> In past years when I have travelled The Canadian in a Double 
Bedroom, 
> or taken the Ocean in a Doube Bedroom the description of the 
> accomodation on the tickets was "DOUBLE BEDROOM D" (with D being the 
> room number).  This year when I purchased my tickets for a trip on 
The 
> Canadian later this summer the description simply reads "TWO BEDS".
> 
> Is this a mistake or is it a change that they have made since my 
last 
> trip?
> 
> thanks,
> chris scott
> toronto

I noticed the same earlier this year.  Other accomodations have been 
similarly re-stated: roomettes (single bedrooms) are "1 BED/LIT" and 
drawing rooms (triple bedrooms) are logically "3 BEDS/LITS."

 My ticket for a future trip in a Renaissance deluxe bedroom reads "2 
BEDS/LITS D." 

David Brain,
Mississauga, Ont.
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R.L.Kennedy | 1 May 2005 03:17
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Re: Commemorative train consists -- OriginalTrains 1 and 2 (and 11 and 12)

--- In Canadian-Passenger-Rail@..., Don Thomas 
<thomasd <at> s...> wrote:
> > 
> Since the stainless steel cars had already been ordered by then,
this 
> implies that in June 1954 CP hadn't decided how to run them. Two 12-
car 
> stainless steel consists per day would have been feasible under
this 
plan, 

On what do you base this assumption? It took 15 sets of equipment to 
operate these two trains between Montreal and Vancouver plus the sets 
between Toronto and Sudbury. 15x12=180 this is more than the total 
order with nothing for Toronto-Sudbury. 

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Lee Hower | 1 May 2005 08:05
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Re: VIA #88 close call

--- In Canadian-Passenger-Rail@..., "Mark W. Walton" 
<mark.walton <at> s...> wrote:
> It's not always suicide. Sometimes people are walking along a track 
> while wearing headphones and playing music so loud they can't hear an 
> oncoming train or its horn. In a recent case in Manitoba, a head-end 
> crew member threw a water bottle from the cab into the back of the 
head 
> of a woman who was walking along the tracks. She was wearing 
headphones 
> and probably never heard the train coming. She jumped clear just in 
the 
> nick of time.
> 
> Mark Walton
> mark.walton <at> s...
>

Mark, you're right.  Headphones along the tracks can really be deadly.  
Several years ago, I had an opportunity to ride in the cab of a Pacific 
Surfliner from Santa Barbara to Glendale, California.  We were near 
Burbank and at 70mph came across a guy, walking between the rails on 
the other track of the double track section we were on.  As we got 
near, the engineer blew the horn trying to warn this guy.  The guy 
literally jumped straight up in the air in fright.  We were lucky he 
didn't jump in front of us.  But guess what?  As we passed, he kept 
right on walking between the rails.  What a fool.

Lee Hower
Sacramento, California
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Don Thomas | 1 May 2005 08:44
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Re: Possible original intention for the CPR stainless steel cars

I once tried to calculate whether it would have been feasible to run a 
second transcontinental at the same speed as the Canadian, but found that 
any schedule more than a few hours before or after the Canadian would put 
the second train into some significant point or region (Vancouver, Calgary, 
the best parts of the mountains, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal) in the middle 
of the night. The only major point served by the Canadian in the middle of 
the night was Regina, which was smaller than the others. The only way to 
avoid this would be to significantly increase speed above what the Canadian 
could do, and that just wasn't feasible. Another train at the same speed as 
the Canadian would not be able to carry the significant volumes of mail and 
express which the Dominion carried, and which largely sustained it, at least 
in the off season. This would have required three trains at different times 
of day, which would be more than the traffic could bear, except for summer. 
CP had run summer transcontinental trains at a variety of times of day 
during the late 1920's, and abandoned this in the 1930's to put all through 
summer traffic on trains during a narrow time slot. This made it possible to 
manage extra sections most efficiently, and also put passengers through the 
Rockies and Selkirks at the best time for viewing (and got them to CP's 
resorts in daytime). And it didn't serve any major point in the small hours 
of the night. It was probably the advantages of the existing Dominion 
schedule which led CP retain and upgrade it as the second transcontinental 
train. Very long distance travellers would always prefer the faster service 
of the Canadian, but for medium distances there was often little differences 
between the two trains, and travellers would choose whichever had departure 
and arrival times which suited them.

Don

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Jeanes" <david@...>
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Canadian | 1 May 2005 13:49
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File - CanPassRail_Info.txt


CANADIAN-PASSENGER-RAIL GROUP INFORMATION:

Scope and Mandate:
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future passenger trains and rail travel in Canada. This includes all national, regional, commuter, and
tourist rail carriers such as VIA Rail, the current and former passenger operations of CN and CP, Ontario
Northland, BC Rail, GO Transit, West Coast Express, and Rocky Mountaineer Railtours. Others not
mentioned here are of course welcome, so long as they are located in Canada.  The general rule is, "if it runs
on rails in Canada while carrying passengers, then it's 'on-topic.'"
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knowledge-base on this topic exists on the Montrain List.  To find out about them, and other Canadian
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    Discussions regarding freight movements unrelated to passenger rail should be posted elsewhere. We
suggest the Canadian-Rails, C-P-R, or C-N-R lists for these topics. You can also find information on
other Canadian Rail-related lists at Tim Green's excellent TrainsCan site mentioned above.

Messages:
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    Posts from new members will be moderated as well as those from individuals whom the moderators feel should
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28pfds | 1 May 2005 14:12
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Re: Re: Double Bedrooms

It's not a mistake.
 There are three parts to the ticket that relate to this. 
 1) car number
2) seat or accommodation number or letter
3) accommodation description.
 Only the description changed. The previous descriptions made no sense to 
many passengers and crew . For example, a single bedroom used to be 
described as "BDRM IND CHBR". Now it is "1 BED/LIT". 
  There have been no changes to the car number and unit number (seat number 
or berth/room identifier) on the tickets.

 On 4/30/05, davidmississauga <david.brain@...> wrote:

> --- In Canadian-Passenger-Rail@..., "viachrisrail" 
> <viachrisrail <at> y...> wrote:

  In past years when I have travelled The Canadian in a Double 
> Bedroom, or taken the Ocean in a Doube Bedroom the description of the 
> accomodation on the tickets was "DOUBLE BEDROOM D" (with D being the 
> room number). This year when I purchased my tickets for a trip on 
> The Canadian later this summer the description simply reads "TWO BEDS".
> 

Is this a mistake or is it a change that they have made since my 
> last trip?

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David Jeanes | 1 May 2005 14:45
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Re: Possible original intention for the CPR stainless steel cars

On 30/04/2005 21:17, "R.L.Kennedy" <r.l.kennedy@...> wrote:

> It took 15 sets of equipment to operate these two trains between Montreal and
> Vancouver plus the sets between Toronto and Sudbury.

On 01/05/2005 02:44, "Don Thomas" <thomasd@...> wrote:

> I once tried to calculate whether it would have been feasible to run a second
> transcontinental at the same speed as the Canadian, but found that any
> schedule more than a few hours before or after the Canadian would put the
> second train into some significant point or region ... in the middle of the
> night.

So R.L. Kennedy is right to point out that 15 sets were required, (instead
of 14). 

But Toronto-Sudbury, being a shorter leg, could probably have cycled with
three sets or even two rather than four, with each set still only being on
the move for 10-15 hours daily. So the 18 baggage, Skyline, diner and Park
cars would still have sufficed.

The 42 Manors and 29 Chateaus wouldn't have divided evenly among 15 through
sets, though could have been split with 5 manors on each of 8 sets for one
train and three Chateaus and three tourist sleepers on each of the other 7
sets, with four spare sleepers. The 30 coaches would have worked.

I assume that the planners probably did not envisage a mixed consist, (like
the Dominion), and that this was a later expedient. If they were purists,
they probably didn't want to run any segment without a Park car at the rear.
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