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Kennet Boater | 1 Feb 2009 12:46

Plumbing parts and apology

Hello,
Firstly my apologies for a mistake I made a while back by forwarding a 'virus warning' I received by email.
I hadn't realized it was a hoax and thought I was doing the right thing.

Sorry also to the moderators as I was unaware that such a posting should be sent to you rather than posting direct.
I hope I didn't make too many people cross.

May I quietly ask for plumbing advice ?

I have a wood stove heating three rads and a calorifier. Pumped system with a pipe thermostat to control the pump.

My problem is that when the fire cools down it take ages for pipe thermostat to turn off. Thus pushing cooler
water through the calorifier and taking heat out. I've over come this by fitting a shut off valve on the
calorifier heat feed. But this means opening and shutting it at either end of the woodburners 'hot time'
and the valve is  awkward to access.
If I increase the setting on the pipe thermostat the boiler 'boils up' before the pump kicks in. 

Q. Is there a manual inline "thermo valve" that will open when presented with "hot" water and close when the
water is cooler. (or divert between calorifier and a return to system pipe)
I don't know the proper names and terms which made google frustrating!

Sorry for the long message but I wanted to get the first bit in.

Many thanks
Lee 

smosher@...
Trust the boater but not his plank!

visit Low Impact Life Onboard
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Brian Dominic | 1 Feb 2009 13:26
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Re: Plumbing parts and apology

[Default] On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 11:46:54 +0000, Kennet Boater
<smosher@...>  finished their pint and wrote::

>My problem is that when the fire cools down it take ages for pipe thermostat to turn off. Thus pushing cooler
water through the calorifier and taking heat out. I've over come this by fitting a shut off valve on the
calorifier heat feed. But this means opening and shutting it at either end of the woodburners 'hot time'
and the valve is  awkward to access.
>If I increase the setting on the pipe thermostat the boiler 'boils up' before the pump kicks in. 
>
Could you not add an ON - OFF switch to the thermostat circuit? Turn
it off when you don't want the circulation to take heat out of the
calorifier, turn it back on when you start the stove up again.

Brian L Dominic

Web Sites:

Canals: http://www.brianscanalpages.co.uk

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Richard Tanner | 1 Feb 2009 17:17

Re: Plumbing parts and apology


>>My problem is that when the fire cools down it take ages for pipe 
>>thermostat to turn off. Thus pushing cooler water through the calorifier 
>>and taking heat out. I've over come this by fitting a shut off valve on 
>>the calorifier heat feed. But this means opening and shutting it at either 
>>end of the woodburners 'hot time' and the valve is  awkward to access.
>>If I increase the setting on the pipe thermostat the boiler 'boils up' 
>>before the pump kicks in.

Could you need a new pipestat?  Ours is very prompt turning off when the 
water cools down.

Richard Tanner
NB Cartref 

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Captain Beeky | 1 Feb 2009 18:04
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Re: Re: WInsford Flash - welcome party


On 31 Jan 2009, at 21:22, John wrote

> John  nb Charlotte Rose .... thinking of going that way this  
> summer ... any
> idea when others will be around?

Sorry to say, no specific date for our first Weaver visit. We should  
be in the Middlewich area by mid May. Post your plans nearer the time.

Beeky

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Michael Askin | 1 Feb 2009 19:17
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Re: Re: A little chug in the cold weather

>> Nick was his name, but
>> can,t remember the boats name.
>
> Would that have been my brother & family on "Dane" by any chance? :-)
> Harriet Bazley                     ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

Hah! Indead thats them. Just couldn't remember the name yesterday.
Passed them again at Cowley Peachy on my way back.

Mike
nb. Smallworld

--

-- 
Michael Askin
http://shoestring_DOT_zapto_DOT_org/

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Kennet Boater | 1 Feb 2009 19:44

RE: Plumbing parts

Hi Brian and Richard
I have fitted an overide switch so the pump can be switched from thermostat to constant to prevent the 'boil
up' as the fire initially gains heat. (The boiler fittings are small and don't allow the heat to travel the
pipe and start the therostat before boil up) 

Once the system is hot I switch back to theromstat (set low to avoid boil up) and all is fine. 
We burn wood rather than coal so when the fire dies down (if we are slack at 'log chucking', go out or go to bed)
the pipe seems to get very cool before the thermostat cuts out. 
Im not bothered by the rads getting a spell of cool water but the calorifier looses a fair bit of heat. 

What how does the thermostat on a older type car work? Would that stop/allow water along a pipe.

The system is on my refit boat so the pipe thermostat is less than a year old and has only been used on and off (ha
ha!) this winter.

Currently fiddling with the pipe stat settings but its as long job as envolves  a full cycle of
cold/hot/cold. Would like to have the calorifier only receive the hottest water, without me having to go
wardrobe potholing each day! ho hum!

Thanks for your suggestions
Lee 

smosher@...
Trust the boater but not his plank!

visit Low Impact Life Onboard
www.lilo.org.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Dominic <brian.dominic@...>
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John | 1 Feb 2009 20:44
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Re: Plumbing parts

Lee enquired:
.... how does the thermostat on a older type car work? Would that stop/allow water along a pipe.

An engine thermostat is closed when cold and this allows the coolant to circulate around the engine only.
Once the coolant has reached the cut-off temperature, the thermostat opens, allowing the coolant to
circulate around the heating system. This enables the engine to reach it's operating temperature faster.
I am not sure how you could incorporate this into the system that you have on the boat, though. You can get
differing temperature thermostats from a Motor Factors. 
Sorry I cant be off further help, but I'm sure someone will be along who can, maybe help.

Good luck

John  nb Charlotte Rose 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Ron Jones | 1 Feb 2009 21:44
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Re: Re: Flash boaters (And Mushy Peas!)

Martin Clark wrote:
> Baz Juniper wrote...
>> On 30 Jan 2009, at 10:58, Martin Clark wrote:
>>> Steve Heaven wrote...
>>>> On Thu, 2009-01-29 at 16:53 +0000, Martin Clark wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> (tenuously on topic as Old Market St is quite close to where the
>>>> River
>>>> Frome (unnavigable) joins the Feeder Canal on it's way to Bristol
>>>> docks)
>>>
>>> I think you may be mistaken in that. I always understood that it was
>>> culverted right under Broadmead and The Centre to St Augustine's
>>> Quay, where it keeps the Floating Harbour topped up.
>>
>> I think you're right, Martin:
>>
>> http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/River_Frome,_Bristol
>>
> Hmmm. That page appears to have been entirely nicked from
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Frome,_Bristol

You spotted the clue at the bottom of the page?... Even though it's in grey 
text...
"The source of this article is Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.  The text 
of this article is licensed under the GFDL."

Ron Jones
Process Safety & Development Specialist
Don't repeat history, unreported chemical lab/plant near misses at
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Martin Clark | 1 Feb 2009 22:01
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Re: Re: Flash boaters (And Mushy Peas!)

Ron Jones wrote...
>Martin Clark wrote:
>> Baz Juniper wrote...
>>> On 30 Jan 2009, at 10:58, Martin Clark wrote:
>>>> Steve Heaven wrote...
>>>>> On Thu, 2009-01-29 at 16:53 +0000, Martin Clark wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> (tenuously on topic as Old Market St is quite close to where the
>>>>> River
>>>>> Frome (unnavigable) joins the Feeder Canal on it's way to Bristol
>>>>> docks)
>>>>
>>>> I think you may be mistaken in that. I always understood that it was
>>>> culverted right under Broadmead and The Centre to St Augustine's
>>>> Quay, where it keeps the Floating Harbour topped up.
>>>
>>> I think you're right, Martin:
>>>
>>> http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/River_Frome,_Bristol
>>>
>> Hmmm. That page appears to have been entirely nicked from
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Frome,_Bristol
>
>You spotted the clue at the bottom of the page?... Even though it's in grey
>text...
>"The source of this article is Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.  The text
>of this article is licensed under the GFDL."
>
No, I didn't spot that. I just thought it seemed like Wikipedia's style, 
so went and looked at Wikipedia.
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Bru | 1 Feb 2009 23:08
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RE: Plumbing parts

Automotive thermostats would run far too hot (they're usually in the 85 to
95 deg range)

You should be able to use a standard TMV (Thermostatic Mixing Valve of the
type used for preventing hot water at taps and/or showers being scalding
hot) backwards by connecting the heat source output to the *output* side of
the TMV. When the water from the source rises above the set temperature, it
will flow out of the TMV's cold water inlet. You would need to blank off the
hot water inlet.

Eg;
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/31639/Plumbing/Brassware/Prestex-Peglertherm-D
ual-Valve-15mm-22mm

A better bet in some ways, because it's designed to work this way round,
would be a solar system diverter valve. One of these will send the inlet
water to either a cold outlet or a hot outlet depending on whether it is
below or above the preset temperature. Again, you could simply blank off the
cold outlet. However, these valves are generally factory preset for
temperature and they're a bit harder to track down 

HTH
Bru

> -----Original Message-----
> From: canals-list@... [mailto:canals-list@...]
> On Behalf Of John
> Sent: 01 February 2009 19:44
> To: canals-list@...
> Subject: Re: [canals-list] Plumbing parts
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