johnedmundson | 1 Jul 01:02 2011
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Re: Oppose NATO bombing of Libya

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Eli wrote:
"No doubt at least some of them will be there counter-demonstrating, thereby
demonstrating their REAL support for the opposite demand - KEEP BOMBING LIBYA,
although they won't have signs that are quite that obvious."

Well it's reassuring to know that at least some leftists in the West are clear
about this, because the Arab left are clearly just far too stupid and confused
to understand:

"Egyptian, Arab and international socialists and progressive forces met in Cairo
3-5 June, to discuss the future of the Arab revolutions in light of imperialism,
Zionism and global capitalism ... Not only were democratic struggles supported
as a tool in the struggle against imperialism, but, simultaneously, the Forum
considered imperialism as a threat to democratic struggles. Almost all
participants condemned the NATO intervention in Libya as a Western attempt to
contain and control the Libyan revolution and, by extension, all the Arab
revolutions. However, a representative of the Libyan February 17 coalition
stated in the Forum’s opening session stated that, ‘We don’t see Western
intervention as negative but as saving civilian lives. Libyans are fighting for
freedom. Long live the Libyan revolution!’ The final declaration of the Forum
‘asserted its firm support for the Libyan people’s revolution against the
criminal Kadhafi regime. It also condemned the military imperialist intervention
in Libya, justified by the barbaric confrontation of the Kadhafi regime of
popular peaceful protests, calling for stopping this intervention immediately.’

http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/2011/debating-the-future-of-the-arab-revolutions-in-cai
(Continue reading)

Suresh | 1 Jul 01:15 2011
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Oppose NATO bombing of Libya

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Plenty of Iraqi Arabs and Kurds took pro-Western and third-camp type positions 
on the first Gulf War and the Iraq invasion as well. As did people in Serbia and 
Bosnia. So what? John seems to think that leftists are obligated to pander to 
people in the semi-colonial world who minimize the significance of resisting 
imperialist aggression. It's his right to believe this, but more resolute 
anti-imperialists will continue to join folks like Fred, Eli, and ANSWER in 
putting opposition to the West's neverending series of predatory wars first. 

Nevermind from a Marxist or anti-imperialist perspective, even from a simple 
utilitarian standpoint, the U.S. and it's allies wars have caused hundreds of 
thousands of more deaths and brought more poverty and misery than third rate 
dictators like Qaddafi. But, hey according to people like John, we're supposed 
to (at best!) place overthrowing the Libyan government on an equal level with 
ending the NATO war against the country... while in reality putting more time 
and energy on the former and constantly criticizing and nitpicking those seeking 
to prioritize the latter.

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Eli Stephens | 1 Jul 03:00 2011
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Re: Oppose NATO bombing of Libya

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Adam wrote (impressively so, considering it was from his iPhone :-) ):

"This is sectarianism gone mad.  So it's no matter what the signs of 
those whom are not explicitly from the ANSWER coalition read.  Your 
preconceived narrative is that these groups are anti-anti-war.  To turn a
 phrase popularized by a really, really bad guy, this is equivalent to 
claiming: "You're either with us, or you're against [the movement]."  I 
appreciate the united front tactic, but the when sectarians are running 
the show, it's still sectarian."

If a group or groups want to have a "down with Gaddafi, support the rebels" demonstration, but still claim to
oppose NATO bombing (which not all on the left do, even nominally), they could do so any time, all by
themselves. But someone who counter-demonstrates at a demonstration whose ONE demand is STOP BOMBING
LIBYA is sending a very clear message to the world (including the media), which is that they do not support
that demand (just think about how it will play out on the TV news that night, assuming that it gets coverage -
"People for and against the war on Libya demonstrated today..."). And if one doesn't oppose bombing which
is actively going on, then one supports it, and supports imperialism, whether one admits it or not. I'm not
saying you "either with us or you're against (the move
 ment)" as Adam says. I could care less where you are with respect to "the movement." No, I'm saying you either
against imperialism, or you're with it.

Eli Stephens
 Left I on the News
 http://lefti.blogspot.com 		 	   		  
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Alistair Boyd-Bell | 1 Jul 03:28 2011
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Re: Oppose NATO bombing of Libya

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And what counts as being pro- or anti-imperialist is defined by... you. How
convenient.

On 1 July 2011 13:00, Eli Stephens <elishastephens <at> hotmail.com> wrote:

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>
>
>
> Adam wrote (impressively so, considering it was from his iPhone :-) ):
>
> "This is sectarianism gone mad.  So it's no matter what the signs of
> those whom are not explicitly from the ANSWER coalition read.  Your
> preconceived narrative is that these groups are anti-anti-war.  To turn a
>  phrase popularized by a really, really bad guy, this is equivalent to
> claiming: "You're either with us, or you're against [the movement]."  I
> appreciate the united front tactic, but the when sectarians are running
> the show, it's still sectarian."
>
> If a group or groups want to have a "down with Gaddafi, support the rebels"
> demonstration, but still claim to oppose NATO bombing (which not all on the
> left do, even nominally), they could do so any time, all by themselves. But
> someone who counter-demonstrates at a demonstration whose ONE demand is STOP
> BOMBING LIBYA is sending a very clear message to the world (including the
(Continue reading)

Eli Stephens | 1 Jul 03:41 2011
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Re: Oppose NATO bombing of Libya

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Alistair: "And what counts as being pro- or anti-imperialist is defined by... you. How convenient."

Yes, because this is SUCH a difficult call. Let's see...NATO bombs dropping on an African country. The U.S.
now openly admitting its goal is "regime change" (also "decapitation") in another country. The
colonizers of Africa and the enslavers of Africans arming, and fighting on behalf of, one side in a civil
war. Yes, it's just SO hard to tell what position is pro-imperialist.

Eli Stephens
 Left I on the News
 http://lefti.blogspot.com 		 	   		  
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Marce Cameron | 1 Jul 04:23 2011
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Translation (Cuba): Alfredo Guevara & students 1

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From "Cuba's Socialist Renewal"
http://cubasocialistrenewal.blogspot.com
To receive email updates or feeds click link above
Support this blog
http://cubasocialistrenewal.blogspot.com/p/support-this-blog.html

Regular readers of my blog need no introduction to Alfredo Guevara, a
key figure in the Cuban Revolution from Fidel's generation. I
translated an earlier exchange between Guevara and Cuban university
students here http://cubasocialistrenewal.blogspot.com/2011/05/translation-alfredo-guevara-dialogue.html
and made some introductory comments on Guevara's role in
the Cuban Revolution historically and today. This one is just as
interesting and informative, if not more so, and covers new ground. It
took place in March at Havana University in a forum hosted by the
Faculty of Chemistry, the first in a series of such forums  students
from the faculty have initiated by creating a "Debate Space".

This in itself reflects the gradual opening up of more spaces for
public debate on internal problems and the renewal of Cuba's socialist
project. Equally interesting are the words of introduction by one of
the student organisers on behalf of Debate Space, which I include in
the translation. Given the length of the Spanish transcript, some
14,000 words, I've heavily abridged the translation to focus on what I
think would be of greatest interest to readers of this blog, leaving
aside the many detailed anecdotes and explorations of various topics
related to cinematography and other cultural themes. I've tried to
(Continue reading)

Nick Fredman | 1 Jul 05:03 2011
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Re: Die Linke has the Sexiest Member of Parliament

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This Bundestag thing is very silly and sexist, but I think the following manages to subvert the idea of a
"sexiest" contest in a way that is both genuinely funny and serves a progressive purpose.

At the least this stay at home dad from the northern Melbourne suburb of Reservoir must have one of the best
named blogs in the world. 

http://www.reservoirdad.com/mentally-sexy-2010/what-is-mentally-sexy
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Carlos Riquelme | 1 Jul 05:35 2011
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Re: Question

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Dear Marxmailers,

Thank´s for the info. But we have a little problem. The email of Mr. Mattick
at Adelphi has an auto-response. He´ll back to the University in Sept. Does
anyone have his private email addres?

Thanks,

Comradly,

- Carlos.

2011/6/29 Jim Farmelant <farmelantj <at> juno.com>

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>
>
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:41:24 -0400 Carlos Riquelme
> <riquelmeruz <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > ======================================================================
>
> > Dear Marxmailers:
> >
(Continue reading)

glparramatta | 1 Jul 07:49 2011
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(Updated July 1) Malaysia: Protests demand release of democracy activists | Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal

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International calls for the release of Malaysian socialist and 
pro-democracy activists

Statements at http://links.org.au/node/2380

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Owen Richards | 1 Jul 08:47 2011
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We will be with Chavez!

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http://venezuelatranslatingtherevolution.blogspot.com/2011/07/we-will-be-with-chavez.html
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