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abu hartal | 1 Mar 01:48
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Gonzalez


Eli,

Note first that you have conceded that your candidate lied about the study he used to assert that Obama wants
a long lasting deployment of 60,000 troops. If Obama is indeed relying on that report, then he is committed
to zero troops by  two years. If he is not relying on that report, then Gonzalez has given no evidence or logic
for his 60,000 number. So first things first, your candidate is a liar.

Second, note that Obama has said several times that we must distinguish counter-insurgency from
anti-terrorism. The people in Iraq who are actually committed to Osama bin Laden's terrorist
organization are very, very few, and they are probably mostly lumpen criminal elements. We can study
Patrick Cockburn to confirm these assessments.  These are the people Obama has committed himself to
attacking-- good for him. 

There is a massive Sunni insurgency of course which sometimes describes itself as al Qaeda. But Obama has
been as clear as day that the US has no business fighting either the Sunni or Shia insurgencies. This is why
Obama can say over and over again that he is committed only to a residual force. 

One could not defeat the Sunni insurgency with a residual force. The residual force--he has said over and
over again--would be used to protect diplomats and civilians (something you and Gonzalez seem to think
the US military should not do) and make strikes (not go to war or carry out counter-insurgency) against the
Osama bin Laden led al Qaeda, the organization which carried out brutal attacks on American soil and
against innocent American non combatants (so are you opposed to such strikes against Osama's al Qaeda, a
group of murderous thugs). 

At any rate, there is no evidence at all that Obama plans to leave 60,000 troops in Iraq to go to war with or
against the Sunni insurgency. 

So you and Gonzalez should drop the charge of Obama calling for 60,000 permanent troops.
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Eli Stephens | 1 Mar 02:05
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Re: Gonzalez


AH: Eli, Note first that you have conceded that your candidate lied about the 
study he used...[I didn't bother to read any further]

Alright, this is getting ridiculous. I'm now officially signing off from any 
"debates" with AH. I couldn't possibly have "conceded" anything about "my 
candidate," since "my candidate" is Gloria La Riva, whose views on anything 
haven't even been discussed on this list.

Actually this is kind of funny. On Daily Kos, where I frequently write and 
comment, if I write something negative about Clinton, other commenters 
automatically assume that "my candidate" is Obama, and when I write something 
negative about Obama, they assume that "my candidate" is Clinton. I don't know 
WHO AH thinks "my candidate" is and frankly I couldn't give a rat's ass. 
Goodbye, AH.

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Roger Baker | 1 Mar 04:13

Re: Imperialism

See below for early comments:
When I stated that later stages would follow, I was paraphrasing the article 
in 'Lenin Reloaded" in which Geroges Labica wrote:  (pg 225)

      [The term  "highest"  in the title of Lenin's work should not be 
understood as "last" or final," in any          ontological  sense, that is, 
the stage after which there could be no further development.  It simply 
means "contemporary" or "present."  The author himself made this clear on a 
number of occasions.  In considering a title, he initially opted for 
"Imperialism, the highest (modern) stage of capitalism."..................

Labicas continues:
     It is unfortunately necessary to go a step further in this 
characterization, and maintain that the situation engendered by our "new 
imperialism" is worse than that which prevailed in the 1910s. As we have 
just seen, the situation at that  time was marked by relative stability, 
which is no longer the case in the present crisis, and prevented Lenin from 
speaking of unemployment or mass poverty.  Besides, not only did the 
phenomenon of multinationals not then present the ubiquity that it has 
acquired today, but many other features have grown considerable more acute, 
including the steady diminution of the states functions of social 
regulation, the decline of the nation-state.....the circulation of capital, 
and the role of the stock exchanges.]  END

    A higher stage remains Lenin's Imperialism, as you assert,  it is simply 
a more voracious, highly developed system of  exploitation that has 
developed in the last century.

Roger
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Dbachmozart | 1 Mar 04:24
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Green Party US on the edge?


From a friend in the national leadership of the Green Party US --

Nader said in one of the reports that the Greens have four contenders,  
and that there's plenty room for parallel progressive candidates.  This  
is no doubt, however, another split in the party and Nader is going his  
own way, leaving McKinney and the Greens to find theirs.  The situation  
is serious for the Greens because they're a paycheck away from  bankruptcy 
and if money doesn't start to rush in I don't know how they will  be able 
to pay for the convention or their staff.  They may be on the  verge of 
imploding.

It was hoped McKinney would bring people of color  into the party and she 
may, but she's also talking about a Reconstruction  Party and if that 
get's off the ground everyone will likely  follow.

Either way the Greens are in deep do  do.

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Mark Lause | 1 Mar 06:22
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Re: Green Party US on the edge?

Agreed.

McKinney's alliance to the GPUS was always tentative.  If nominated by
the GPUS, it will largely be because of the peculiarly undemocratic
structure of the GPUS, which rather equates state parties with little
or no membership to state parties with large, engaged memberships,
such as California.  On the basis of "one Green-one vote," Nader's the
choice now, as it was in 2004.  Nader may yet decide to put his name
in the race within the GPUS, but he's apparently decided to make the
run on his own regardless of what the GPUS does.

Where that leaves the Greens is a very good question.  Certainly,
Obama's likely success is also certain to undercut a lot of the
potential appeal of a McKinney campaign.  This may leave the GPUS with
another lilliputian campaign focused largely on denouncing Nader.

Perhaps the Green organizations with real membership, such as
California and New York, should use the Nader campaign to build a
Progressive Green organization or something with democratic structure
based on the will of the membership.. This would subsume the best of
the old GPUS in such a way as to get something capable of moving on to
the next stage.

ML

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Sukant Chandan | 1 Mar 09:44
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WOMENS LIB/MIDDLE EAST: Exclusive interview with Nawal El Saadawi

Very balanced article about Saadawi. When I saw her speak at my
University campus (Sussex) back in 2002 (I still have a copy of the
talk on VHS), I think she surprised some of our Palestinian as they
thought she would not mention the big issues of the Palestinian
Intifada, Afghanistan and the looming war on Iraq. Instead, she made a
blistering attack on academics who dont oppose these wars (which made
some of the 'left' academics squirm), and came out in full support of
the liberation struggle in Palestine and fully supported all the means
used in that struggle. She talked of how when she was young in Egypt
it was the desire of her and all her friends to strap themselves with
bombs and attack the British army bases!

I would agree with some of the criticisms of her below. I remember at
the talk back then tha she mentioned her views on the veil, which made
some veiled students uncomfortable, but that issue aside, she did does
not falter when it comes to defending the oppressed against western
domination, which is the main issue.

Sukant

==============================

An exclusive interview conducted by Sara Wajid with the author and
activist Nawal El Saadawi

http://www.darkmatter101.org/site/2008/02/13/nawal-el-saadawi-in-conv...

Less than a minute in, Nawal El Saadawi, the ideological godmother of
Muslim feminists, flouts author interview protocol rather fabulously,
by pretending she's not really doing one. I'm at a sunny breakfast
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Ruthless Critic of All that Exists | 1 Mar 13:19
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Re: Gonzalez

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Eli Stephens
<elishastephens <at> hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  AH writes:
>  "He [Obama] has called for a residual force (meaning less than a brigade,
>  meaning at most a couple of thousand soldiers) to protect US civilians and
>  diplomats (good for him) and a small force to go after the 200 or 300 al Qaeda
>  operatives."
>
>  200 or 300 al Qaeda operatives? You must be kidding. The U.S. military reports
>  killing that many members of al Qaeda practically every week! As I wrote about
>  here most recently
>  (http://lefti.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html#8600404296206342021) but also
>  on many previous occasions, if you read the news, virtually EVERY attack on
>  "insurgents" in the media is described as having been against "al Qaeda."
>  Claiming you are opposed to having troops in Iraq except for fighting al Qaeda
>  (oh, and except for protecting U.S. personnel including OTHER U.S. troops and
>  training Iraqi troops) basically means you aren't for a pullout at all.

That is how the Bush administration may describe them (calling any and
all attack on "insurgents" as attack on al Qaeda),  since the Bush
administration has astrong incentive to do so (it wants to keep the
troops deployed), but it does not necessarily follow that a future
Obama administration will have the sameincentive to use such a
description (especially, if it wants to pull out troops).

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Walter Lippmann | 1 Mar 13:53
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The Middle Passage Passed Over (Juventud Rebelde)

Learn more about this remarkable author
who has visited and worked in the U.S.:
http://www.afrocubaweb.com/arandia.htm
=============================================

JUVENTUD REBELDE
The Middle Passage Passed Over
The contact of some African peoples with others fomented a culture of resistance that transcended the
dominant system and has lasted until today as an archetype of freedom
By: Gisela Arandia

2008-02-28 | 16:06:17 EST

The executioner always kills twice;the second time with silence
Elie Wisel *

It is not possible to speak of racism, discrimination or racial
prejudice without mentioning the significance of the transatlantic
slave trade. This was considered the motor of the world economy in
the 18th century, as well as the most pronounced act of human
deportation of the history – a massive forced migration process. 
It had an irreversible effect on the enslaved African population
because, except for a few small groups, the victims could never
return to their countries of origins.

Abolition as a legal action concluded a little more than a century
ago, but the consequences continue to be felt, especially for people
of color. In a particular way on the American continent, the
fundamental scenario of this conflict, the impact of that ignominy
still constitutes a problem for the descendants of those victims.
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Dbachmozart | 1 Mar 14:41
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The cholesterol con and billions in profits


Maggie Mahar | The Cholesterol Con - Where Were the Doctors? Parts I and  II
Maggie Mahar's two-part series in Health Beat on "The Cholesterol Con"  asks, 
"During the many years of the Cholesterol Con - where were the doctors?  When 
everyone from the makers of Mazola Corn Oil to the Popes of Cardiology  
assured us that virtually anyone could ward off heart disease by lowering his  
cholesterol, why didn't more of our doctors raise an eyebrow and warn us,  
'Actually, that's not what the research shows.'"

_http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/022908HA.shtml_ 
(http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/022908HA.shtml) 

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Walter Lippmann | 1 Mar 14:50
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MONTREAL GAZETTE: Musical diplomacy: Is Cuba next?

Canadians are very lucky. They can, and thousands and thousands do,
simply fly down to Cuba for a weekend. Normalization makes that one
of the favored options for people from Canada. It's precisely that
which has the Miami militants - not an athletic team - scared more
than ever now. Here's the link to a piece in today's MIAMI HERALD
by the paid opponents of normalization, while below is one of many
articles I've seen advocating expanded musical contacts with Cuba 
in light of this week's visit to the DPRK by the NY Philharmonic.

Walter Lippmann
Los Angeles, California

WHY TRAVEL TO CUBA MUST BE REGULATED (Miami Herald)
http://www.miamiherald.com/851/story/439886.html

WHEN WILL CUBA BE OPEN FOR BUSINESS? (Business Week)
http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/08_10/b4074000185600.htm
=====================================================================

MONTREAL GAZETTE
Musical diplomacy: Is Cuba next?

ARTHUR KAPTAINIS 
The Gazette 

Saturday, March 01, 2008

Is there anything great music cannot do? This week, it forged a
diplomatic link between two of the staunchest foes on Earth, as the
redoubtably American New York Philharmonic under Lorin Maazel played
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