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Ben Courtice | 1 Jan 2003 02:41
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Re: The Forthcoming War and Public Opinion

Thanks for the post, Paul...

I think you have to a significant extent explained the contradiction 
facing the left in Australia too, and sadly my impressions are that the 
US isn't much different either.

However, there are some signs of hope. The rising vote for the 
(anti-war) Greens in Australia gives some hope that people still are 
looking for an alternative political course for the nation. Also, 
globally, the (mainly young) crowd who partook of the protests at 
Seattle, Prague, Genoa etc etc haven't all disappeared. They are still 
here and could be an important element of the anti-war movement.

> although this will give the left an opportunity to raise political issues, because we are weak and able
only to approach a relatively small number of people, the main effect will be to strengthen the sense of
political estrangement and apathy.

Given that STWC has organised massive demos, what do you think needs to 
be done as the next step -- if we are to try to avert the gloomy 
scenario you portray, i.e. strengthening apathy?
Or are the demonstrations' size not reflective of their real strength?

Ben Courtice
http://home.connexus.net.au/~benj

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Charles Jannuzi | 1 Jan 2003 07:42
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Re: more on Hayek

Peter McLaren in part, wrote:

>>I think Henry is right on target in his 
assessment of Von Hayek. Part of the
problem faced by the educational left today is 
that even among the most
progressive educators there appears to exist an 
ominous resignation produced
by the seeming inevitability of capital, even as 
financial institutions
expand capacity in inverse proportion to a 
decline in living standards and
job security.<<

Yes, I've quite enjoyed reading both Peter and
Henry on Hayek.  

Hayek's ideas fail at both engaging real world
economies and real world politics (you could
start with the fact that Hayek really didn't
understand planning and coordination in either a
micro- or macro-economic sense). 

The biggest insight I could gain from reading him
is overall irrationalist-- that the theoretical,
predictive, explanatory failure of ALL social
sciences, including Hayekian economics, as a
general pattern, is itself quite predictable
because, well, collective human behaviour is so
multitudinous and complex that most theories
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Charles Jannuzi | 1 Jan 2003 08:47
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Wishes for New Year

I wish for peace. 

And I wish to state a suggestion:

We have far too many real-world issues (such as
the coming war against Iraq) pressing us that I
don't think we should waste anymore time or
bandwidth debating posts that proclaim things
like an unqualified 'Hayek was right' (or 'I have
seen the light!'). Hayek was a libertarian
economist and a lightweight philosopher whose
economics and political philosophies are not
easily reconciled--and that is being nice. You
might say he won a Nobel prize in economics
because he successfully stole some ideas from
physics and information theory.  

There are how many lists where this stuff
belongs; my take on the Marxism list is this is
definitely not one of them. Hayek and his
philosophy, as some have pointed out, are
somewhat interesting to those on the left for
historical and nomothetic reasons (though I think
there is far more to be learned from reading the
contemporaneous Gramsci). And because, if Hayek
is the best thinker the right has, the left's
problems are not insurmountable. But from what
I've seen, Mandel is clearly not using Hayek in
any way useful for explication, and dealing with
the content of most of his texts (from what I've
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LouPaulsen | 1 Jan 2003 09:45
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Re: The Forthcoming War and Public Opinion


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Flewers" <hatchet.job <at> virgin.net>
> However, a major problem is that it seems that Tony Blair & Co can go
ahead
> and give support to President Bush without meeting more than the
occasional
> demonstration and popular indifference. The Conservative Party tries to be
> more pro-US than Blair, the Liberal Democrats (who may take over from the
> Tories as Britain's main opposition party) make critical noises and, like
> some Labourites who are iffy about the war, want the UN to sort it out,
> seemingly oblivious to the fact that Bush and Blair have stitched up the
UN.
> Blair can ignore public opinion and the big demonstrations we've had
against
> the war, as he knows that can get away with it.
>
> Political engagement in Britain has declined over the last couple of
> decades, and there is a feeling, a very defeatist feeling, that whatever
one
> does, whoever gets your vote, the government will do what it wants, and
> ordinary people's interests will be ignored. This leads to a feeling of
> sullen political apathy, a growing estrangement from political thinking.
The
> forthcoming war will go ahead regardless of public opinion, and, although
> this will give the left an opportunity to raise political issues, because
we
> are weak and able only to approach a relatively small number of people,
the
> main effect will be to strengthen the sense of political estrangement and
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Fred Feldman | 1 Jan 2003 09:53

US drops bomb(s) on Pakistan seminary after clash with Pak.troops

Australian Broadcasting Company
January 1, 2002

US bombs hit Pakistan town after border clash (excerpt)

The US military has bombed an abandoned religious
school on Pakistani territory after a gunbattle
between US and Pakistani troops on the border with
Afghanistan, Pakistan officials said on Tuesday. 

The US military said one of its soldiers had been
wounded in Afghanistan on Sunday local time in an
exchange of gunfire with a Pakistani border guard. 

A Pakistani official said two border guards were also
injured. 

Pakistan is a close US ally in the war on terror and
says it has stationed 60,000-70,000 troops on the
Afghan border to help track down remnants of Osama bin
Laden's Al Qaeda network and leaders of the Taliban
regime that sheltered them. 

The wounded American was part of a unit conducting a
mission with Pakistani forces along the Afghan border
when a disagreement appeared to break out, according
to a statement released by the US military at their
Afghan headquarters at Bagram air base. 

"A Pakistani border scout opened fire with a G3 rifle
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Andy Lehrer | 1 Jan 2003 11:06
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U.K. considered ethnic cleansing in N. Ireland

U.K. mulled plan to expel Catholics from N. Ireland

By JILL LAWLESS
Associated Press 
Wednesday, January 1, 2003

LONDON -- At the height of bloodletting in Northern Ireland, the British
government considered trying to end the sectarian conflict by forcibly
moving hundreds of thousands of Catholics to the Irish Republic, according
to records released yesterday.

But the top secret contingency plan -- dated July 23, 1972 -- was rejected
out of concern it would not work unless the government was prepared to be
"completely ruthless" in carrying it out, and that it would provoke outrage
at home and abroad, especially in the United States.

"We do not believe that the government would be able to obtain the support
of public opinion in Great Britain for the drastic actions that we consider
in this paper," the newly declassified document says.

"Any faint hope of success must be set against the implications of a course
which would demonstrate to the world that [the government] was unable to
bring about the peaceful solution of problems save by expelling large
numbers of its own citizens and doing so on a religious basis," the document
adds.

It is the first indication that Britain once considered using a method that
came to be known as "ethnic cleansing," a strategy Britain, among many
nations, denounced when Serbs used it against Muslims and ethnic Albanians
during the Balkan wars of the 1990s.
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Ben Courtice | 1 Jan 2003 12:19
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Chumbawamba on Joe Strummer

Just checking the Chumbawamba page (http://www.chumba.com/) for new 
stuff and found this great tribute to the clash.

If you don't get the reference to the " anarcho finger sniffer" I think 
they're talking about the punker-than-thou anarcho underground who tend 
to be pretty down on any punk band that sells a lot of records as being 
sellouts.

The way Stephen Wells enthuses about the Clash (who I like quite a lot) 
reminds me of what I thought of the Dead Kennedys at high school. " 
aesthetically and politically flawed AND totally perfect" -- that's it!

Ben Courtice
http://home.connexus.net.au/~benj
------------------------------------------------

Joe Strummer 1952-2002

1977. Me? Suburban schoolboy billy-no-mates virgin twat.

Them? Skinny, sullen Apollonian mod gods. Instant shell-shock.

Splintered, paint spattered and battered guitar twatting Oxfam-clobbered 
cock-stiffening'n'cunt drenching ugly-pretty boy uber-yobs with dog 
eyes,sex hair and the thin twitching limbs of 
smackfucked'n'tapewormriddled ultramodels.

Day-glo homocommie kneetrembler chic.

Fuck! Glottal-stop mock-cockernee agit-prop retro-pop punk rock.
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Jurriaan Bendien | 1 Jan 2003 14:18
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The Pope is in favour of peace (like everyone else)

Pope: End 'Senseless' Mideast Conflict
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope John Paul II opened the new year Wednesday by
pleading for an end to the ``fratricidal and senseless'' conflict in the
Middle East as the church celebrated its World Day of Peace.

``Despite the serious and repeated attacks to the serene and joint
cohabitation of peoples, peace is possible and right,'' the pope said, to
rare applause interrupting his homily during a New Year's Day Mass in St.
Peter's Basilica.

``Indeed, peace is the most precious good to invoke from God and to build
with every effort.''

Full: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Pope-New-Year.html

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Fred Feldman | 1 Jan 2003 17:08

Japan claims its piece of Iraq action

Japan Today
January 2, 2002
Gov't to draft new law to support U.S. in war on Iraq

TOKYO - The government plans to draft a new law to
pave the way for Tokyo to provide noncombatant support
to the U.S. military in case of a U.S. attack on Iraq,
a national newspaper said Wednesday.

The Mainichi Shimbun said the Japanese support is
expected to focus on fuel supplies to U.S. Navy
vessels and cargo shipment as in the case with Tokyo's
support to the U.S. military in the U.S.-led war
against terrorism in Afghanistan.

"There is a need to demonstrate the Japan-U.S.
alliance is strong," a government official was quoted
as saying.

Japan currently provides the U.S. military involved in
the war against terrorism with logistic support under
a law on support for antiterrorism activities, but a
possible U.S. war against Iraq would not be covered
under the law.

The Mainichi said the government is also considering
mapping out a law to provide logistic support to
U.S.-led forces to be stationed in Iraq after the war
and supply assistance to refugees in neighboring
countries. (Kyodo News)
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Charles Brown | 1 Jan 2003 18:12
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more on Hayek

My man Charles Jannuzi. He always wears that name "Charles" well. Sometimes
when I was on LBO-Talk, I thought my twin had arrived. Hayek ? Yukko !
CB

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:42:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Charles Jannuzi <b_rieux <at> yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: more on Hayek
Yes, I've quite enjoyed reading both Peter and
Henry on Hayek. 
Hayek's ideas fail at both engaging real world
economies and real world politics (you could
start with the fact that Hayek really didn't
understand planning and coordination in either a
micro- or macro-economic sense).
The biggest insight I could gain from reading him
is overall irrationalist-- that the theoretical,
predictive, explanatory failure of ALL social
sciences, including Hayekian economics, as a
general pattern, is itself quite predictable
because, well, collective human behaviour is so
multitudinous and complex that most theories
can't encompass it. But that is hardly a unique
insight.
etc. in the same vein
clip

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Gmane