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Gary MacLennan | 1 Jul 2002 01:43
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Re: Working Class Venezuelans rally for Chavez (EFE)

Jay sent sent a chill through me. not again!  The military is never purged 
- the officer class is always the last resort for the ruling class in the 
kind of struggle for power that we are entering into in Venezuela.

regards

Gary

>Sounds good about this battle of mass mobilizations, except that Chavez
>apparently called for the people to turn in their arms in his speech to his
>supporters yesterday  -- thus repeating Allende's mistake of leaving the
>people defenseless?  Hopefully not.   Let's hope the military has been
>successfully purged of reactionaries.

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Scott Hamilton | 1 Jul 2002 04:27
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Re: Gorojovsky and Mr. Proyect


Thankyou for this Armand. I have been concerned about
the things Nestor G has been posting on this list and
publishing - in 'revolution', a NZ leftist mag - but
didn't want to criticise him, from thousands of miles
away. I have been tring to follow events in Argentina
closely, and I have also organised some solidarity
actions here in Auckland as part of the Anti
Imperialist Coalition, and I feel very confident that
Nestor is distorting the facts about Argentina to suit
his agenda, which Ithink could be accurately described
as 'left peronist'. 

For instance, Nestor claimed that the Popular
Assemblies were the preserve of a handful of far
leftists, but I have seen photos and reports of PA
meetings, and even watched a video sent to the AIC by
Partido Obrero recording the growth of a PA. I also
thought that Nestor's claim that Saa was overthrown
not because of class struggle but because he was too
left-wing was very questionable. Nestor, i think,
advocated on this list a boc with Saa
when he came to power, and ended his article for
revolution by advocating a 'Bolivarian socialism'.
It's bizarre that revolution, which pioneered the
critique of auto-Labourism on the NZ far left, would
publish something from such a perspective, when there
is so much good material around on the same subject.

Cheers
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ben | 1 Jul 2002 04:58
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Re: Bush knew..YQUE? What are we going to do about it?

>It is clear that more than incompetence was involved in the failure to act
>to stop 9-11.
That little bit of the article I posted I don't particularly agree with.
But I think the author, in a roundabout way, is correctly pointing out
that the [US] capitalist system is capable of these attacks. However,
the author was also explaining that most conspiracy theorists miss is
that it's not a matter of removing a few corrupt conspirators at the
top, but fighting for a new system that doesn't breed these events. I
think the general drive of the article was good.

If it credibly emerges that 
>It is legitimate to conclude from these facts that Bush knew roughly what
>was coming and let it happen for his own partisan political purposes as
>well as his strategic formulation of U.S. imperial interests and its
>continued and expanded hegemony.
then that's a great propaganda item for us. On the other hand, as the
article below points out, "conspiracy theories are an ugly, ignorant and
dangerous distraction from the real political problems that the policies
of the Bush Administration represent." We don't need any new evidence
that capitalism is nasty, it's all already there. The real difficult
task is disseminating that information to a public who are spoon-fed
CNN-type crap so much that many of them don't even realise there's
alternative news sources.
I don't have much time for conspiracy theories, certainly less than the
original "Bush knew" article I posted, but I think it had a fairly
healthy attitude to dealing with them.

***
September 11th Conspiracy-itis
by Marty Jezer
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Macdonald Stainsby | 1 Jul 2002 05:28
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Re: Bush knew..YQUE? What are we going to do about it?


----- Original Message -----
From: "ben" <benj <at> connexus.net.au>
> That little bit of the article I posted I don't particularly agree with.
> But I think the author, in a roundabout way, is correctly pointing out
> that the [US] capitalist system is capable of these attacks. However,
> the author was also explaining that most conspiracy theorists miss is
> that it's not a matter of removing a few corrupt conspirators at the
> top, but fighting for a new system that doesn't breed these events. I
> think the general drive of the article was good.

If someone believes the general tenor of the idea that Bush (et al, Bush is a
massive lightweight) more than "knew", then that doesn't at all mean that we
need to impeach or remove them. It shows, even more starkly, just how vicious
and corrupt the whole system is. I don't know who was proposing that since the
Bush administration (IMO) allowed the attacks to happen to start the new era of
the "war on Terror" that all we need to do is rid the admin tops- indeed, it
makes a social revolution from top to bottom (especially the gutters) even more
immediate.

Macdonald

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Macdonald Stainsby | 1 Jul 2002 05:30
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Re: Bush knew..YQUE? What are we going to do about it?


----- Original Message -----
From: "ben" <benj <at> connexus.net.au>

Further to Ben's comments:

On the other hand, as the
> article below points out, "conspiracy theories are an ugly, ignorant and
> dangerous distraction from the real political problems that the policies
> of the Bush Administration represent." We don't need any new evidence
> that capitalism is nasty, it's all already there.

Hmm.... this could have been stated in 1944 by a German trying to prove that a
systematic genocide was underway, and others saying don't go there, focus on
class inequality....

Not calling you A Nazi collaborator, Ben. Just making a general observation.

Macdonald

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Chris Brady | 1 Jul 2002 10:59

NYT's Incessant Ideological Insinuation (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A1en?= futbol! tambien)

The Soviets knew sport was not just a game.
Here is a paragraph from the New York Times Monday report on the World
Cup Final; you'd think the German players were part of The Borg
collective (from Star Trek, i.e., "resistance is futile: you will be
assimilated."); or that it was *EAST* Germany that played yesterday in
Yokohama:

"Repeatedly tonight, Brazil manufactured its chances. To its credit,
Germany kept going forward in counterattack, but it did not have
sufficiently creative players to finish. Discipline, impenetrable
goalkeeping and insistent defense carried a prosaic team to the final,
but these values were deficient against Brazil. Germany had a cohesive
team, but the collective could not match Brazil's individual
brilliance."

Give me a brake.
So, um, like, who passed off to Ronaldo before #9 scored? A team mate,
perhaps?  Or did el fenomeno create the ball into the netting solo?
A team by definition is a collective.  All for one, one for all.
The New York "paper-of-record" may be feeling more depserate to exalt
the virtues of bourgeois values --"in these troubled Times."

Best Cup tournament for the past few, though.
But glad it's over.  Now I can concentrate on some overdue work!
Ciao f'now.

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Chris Brady | 1 Jul 2002 11:21

NYT's Incessant Ideological Insinuation

Before I sent the previous,,,
I wish I had've read one other NYT sports report on the game that made
the "collective" German allusion more problematic/amusing with this
line:

"Germans rallied behind their hero, Oliver Kahn, the goalie who plays
the
stock market in his spare time..."

I guess there exist collectives of capitalists, non?
Our bane...

Viva los santos de futbol.
tambien...

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glparramatta | 1 Jul 2002 11:38
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Bouquets for Green Left Weekly?

Hi comrades,

Green Left Weekly sometimes comes in for its share of brickbats on this
list. Perhaps it is time for some bouquets?

Green Left Weekly will mark the publication of its 500th issue on July
17. As anybody on the left who has been involved in keeping a weekly
newspaper going will tell you it is an impressive goal.

Green Left Weekly began its circulation in 1991 as a beacon of
opposition to the US war on Iraq. Today Green Left Weekly continues in
that tradition, a vital alternative source of news in the campaigns
against war and corporate globalisation, and in defence of refugees.

The rise of a movement to defeat the racist anti-refugee policies of the
Australian government is a testament to the determination of ordinary
people to make a difference. There has never been a more important time
to for an alternative source of information, in a world with ever
greater media ownership concentration.

We want to invite all who have found the existence of Green Left Weekly
useful to join us in celebrating and supporting 500 issues of
Australia's best alternative newspaper.

Our 500th issue will feature short messages of support and solidarity
from our friends around the world. Please consider adding your message
of encouragement to the thousands of writers, readers, distributors, web
surfers and subscribers who make Green Left Weekly possible every week.
Send them to <<glparramatta <at> greenleft.org.au>> or
<<glw <at> greenleft.org.au>> before July 11.
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Bethuel Lamola | 1 Jul 2002 13:37
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Freemasons, Fraternities and cults

Hi

I was wondering if there is a Marxist perspective on Fraternities,
cults and secret societies. Is this another variable in the Capitalist
equation of exclusivity. Did Marx say anything about this particular
issue.

This thought was inspired by a local Talkshow in which the Freemasons
were discussed. It got me thinking when people started saying things
like: 'Freemasons rule the world, manipulate markets, look after each
other etc. Some went to the extent of saying 'almost all the American
Presidents are Freemasons'. Is this true ? If so, is there a Marxist
analysis to explain it all.

Cheers
Bethuel 

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Nestor Gorojovsky | 1 Jul 2002 14:12
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Martin Fierro is useful again

"Aura son estos morenos
Pa alivio de mi vejez"

Martín Fierro

("And now it is these darkies
to alleviate my old age")

No racism intended. Just a piece from _Martín Fierro_, which probably 
neither Armand nor his newly born supporter have read (and yet, they 
pretend to speak on Argentina!). 

Listen, children, in agreement with Duhalde, Felipe Solá has just 
appointed as Minister of Security in the Province of Buenos Aires 
such a "leftist" and "soft-handed" man as Juan Pablo Cafiero, a 
guarantee of democratic behavior if anything like that can be found 
among Peronists or self-appointed Peronists. Cafiero belongs to the 
"progressive" wing of the ruling bloc, the FREPASO. His appointment 
has been a clear signal that Solá and Duhalde will attempt to do some 
clean up of the most reactionary elements in the police forces.

How will your Enlightened Ignorances explain this fact?

By simply stating some stupid and false sloganeering on the "Cafiero 
torturador" line????????????????

Your sources betray you, dear children. I am very busy now to enter a 
debate with "international" supporters of the Partido Obrero or other 
sects. I simply want to point out that people such as them are the 
main reason why the Argentinean working class is still Peronist.
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Gmane