Dear Friends,
Reporting to you the proceedings in our Appeal matter:
Met Mr Gyanendra Srivastava on 27th Oct. After reading all the papers i.e. our RTI application, DJB reply & our appeal, he called the PIO. The PIO aggressively defended his action & asked for the appeal to be dismissed. Mr Srivastava said that the information should be given to me , in equity & he was accepting the appeal & the PIO may go into second appeal, if he likes. Then it was clarified to him that the information had already been given as I had deposited the fee under protest to avoid delay & the issue here was the amount of fee charged. He then said that he misunderstood the whole matter & wants to reconsider.
The PIO argued vehemently that under rule 4, fee is to be paid for providing information - 29 pages of information were provided - 27 photocopies of the logbook/diary register pages & 2 pages of answers to our questions. 3 pages of FIR copy were also provided. Therefore, 32 pages were charged for <at> 2/- per page = Rs 64/-.
My contention was that Rule 4 says creation of information is to be charged for. The 27 photocopies was information already existing in the logbook/diary register (these were complaints re water supply - out of about 10 complaints on each page, only one pertained to Nehru Nagar). The deptt chose to give me copies of 27 pages, instead of putting this info together on 1 page - I had not asked for photocopies of complaints, only the details. Similarly, putting together two pages of reply/information also was not creation of information. I had asked for copies of FIR - so I was liable to be charged for only 3 pagesx2/- = Rs 6/- only.
Mr Srivastava did not accept my contention & REJECTED THE APPEAL.
I have received the detailed order in the mail today. He has reiterated the above & made following additional observations:
1. "Having paid the prescribed fees for the information, it is now not open to the appellant to question the levy of fees. The appellant has foreclosed himself from questioning the levy of the fees."
2." Further, Rule 4 makes it abundantly clear that the fee is to be levied for providing information. Whether the information is provided in the form of copies of documents or by processing the same to formulate replies to the questions/points raised by the appellants is not material. The spirit of the rules that a fee is to be paid for the information in any form is amply clear.
3. " While the appellant is entitled to the information under the law, in equity,he does not appear to have any locus standi in the matter. The issues concern Nehru Vihar. He does not reside there. According to his own statement during the appellate proceedings he has never visited the area. He has however invoked information law on the basis of unverified media reports and in uninformed manner."
The above observation was an offshoot of our informal discussion about the incident. He & other deptt officials present were of a view that the colony abounds with unauthorized construction & connections, therefore these people have no grounds for any complaints re water supply.
He also said that the matter was between the Magistrate/police & the people - DJB was not a party to it in any way. He even refused to concede that a complaint was made by DJB - though he also said that DJB has not arrested them & was not interested in their continued harassment. He refused to be further drawn in any discussion - he even blasted the newspapers for misreporting the matter & did not care if it came in the papers again.
Now, I would like your comments on the two issues:
1. Do we have a strong legal case for a Second appeal?
2. What can be done to help the unfortunate people in their continued court & police harassment?
(If you want the see the full order (2 pages) in this first appeal, I will scan it & mail to you.)
--
Chandra k Jain
India
call: 93124 39464
Dear Friends,
The 18th Oct hearing was adjourned at my telephonic request.
Now, the hearing has been fixed for tomorrow 27th Oct at 11.30 am. Please call me & let me know if you would like to join up.
I have been in touch with the citizens against whom DJB had filed an FIR & these people tell me that the police case against them is still on & they feel harassed by court appearances & continuing legal prosecution.
Is there something we can do for them, besides fighting these RTI battles for the common good?
--
Chandra k Jain
India
call: 93124 39464
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On 10/17/06, Chandra Jain <chandra.jain-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
> wrote:
Dear Friends,
A date for hearing the First Appeal on our RTI application has again been fixed for tomorrow, 18th October at 11.30 am at the office of Mr. Gyanandra Srivastava, Member, Rm # 101, Varunalaya.
The issue here is the fee charged. DJB has charged <at> Rs. 2/-/ per page of total of 32 pages of information supplied whereas our contention is that we should be charged only for the 3 pages of the FIR copy that we had specifically asked for - the other 29 pages were of copies of pages of information supplied by DJB but not specifically asked for by us.
Those of you who would like to join me for this meeting tomorrow may please contact me asap.
--
Chandra k Jain
India
call: 93124 39464
Dear Friends,
Our sarkari offices have started to make an effort to be civilized.
There was a call this morning from Mr. Srivastava's office that he is sick today & on leave - so the meeting stands cancelled. A fresh date would be fixed up & informed next week.
Chandra k Jain
India
call: 93124 39464
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 9/21/06, Chandra Jain <chandra.jain-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
> wrote:
Dear friends,
I called up before leaving for the venue today. Mr Srivastava, the Appellate Authority was NOT IN & was not expected in the office today. There was no such intimation from his office about cancellation of today's meeting.
The meeting has again been fixed up for tomorrow, say between 11.30 to 12 o'clock.
Anyone volunteering to join me tomorrow?
--
Chandra k Jain
India
call: 93124 39464
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 9/21/06, Anil kumar <Anil_crp-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
> wrote:
I only suggest that in this type of cases please file an application for file inspection, as given below:
a) Inspection of all the file/s pertains to..........
b)Certified copies of the Identified documents after file Inspection.
In your case please go through copies sent to you and identify the document which you require and return all the unwanted documents. They can't charge for providing reply to your quiery, If documents are provided then they can charge, If you have asked for information in a particular format then there is justification to deman payment.
Chandra Jain <chandra.jain <at>
gmail.com> wrote:
Dear friends,
Our date with First appellate Authority, Delhi Jal Board is for tomorrow, 21.09.2006 at 12 noon at Varunalaya (room 101) on this issue.
The issue here is - what is the fee payable?
My contention is that I need to pay a fee of Rs 2/- per page only for the FIR copy(3 pages) that I had specifically asked for. I had also asked for details of the complaints by the residents - the deptt sent me 27 photocopies of the complaint register pages & wants me to pay for these copies <at> 2/- per page. They also charged me for 2 pages of reply to my questions which obviously should not be charged for as this is not a copy of any document requested by me
What do the experts say on this ? We need quick replies - Please do not take it lightly - the issue is very important in principle as there are numerous cases where the deptt has sent in demands for lakhs of Rupees for providing information even though no copies were asked for as they claimed that the information runs into reams of files & hence the charges for copying all those
files.This is becoming an easy tool for the babus to beat RTI with & not part with any relevant to the point information.
If you would like to join me at this meeting tomorrow, please let me know.
--
Chandra k Jain
India
call: 93124 39464
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