kdag | 2 Mar 19:39 2007
Picon

Re: Giss Streamring still up and running?

Hola!

Haidai i will be very happy to help you or anyone with basic computer skills how to do it, believe me is quite easy as long as one has the basic 3 components: a computer, a stable internet connection (128k will be enough) and a webcam that works under linux.

just right me off-list and i try my best to help you.

best,
/alejo

On 2/23/07, Haidai Nguyen <haidai_nguyen <at> yahoo.com> wrote:
thanks freddy,
we have the know how of how to broadcast we are looking for an infrastructure that sustain 100K plus viewers. i will check out the links that you have send us and get back with you. again thank you for your support!

haidai



----- Original Message ----
From: Fred Pook < fredpook <at> gmail.com>
To: freeman <at> pobox.com; Discuss list on the World Summit on Free Information Infrastructure < wsfii-discuss <at> lists.okfn.org>
Cc: patrick <at> cornwell.org; Hai Dai <haidai <at> otherfriday.org>; kloschi < kloschi <at> subsignal.org>; kdag <funkzvv <at> gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:39:08 PM
Subject: Giss Streamring still up and running?

Hi,
There is a request for help on streaming His Holiness visit to Maui..
Pls see below.
In Dharamsala the situation was like this:
Yahel set up a deal with a Microsoft streaming outfit:

WSFII's were getting close to use an opensource reflector RING worldwide called:
GISS streamring kdag tipped us about.

But streaming is pretty hard to do , Kloschi will know most how to do
it with Icecast/ogg/theora.
Check

http://mcs.hackitectura.net/tiki-index.php?page=live+stream+ogg+theora+ffmpeg2theora+oggfwd

http://summit.airjaldi.com/wiki/index.php/GISS.Stream.Ring


Thanks Freddy

On 2/23/07, freeman murray <fcmurray <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
>
> I provided some support to the Air Jaldi conference
> in Dharmasala last year.  It was great having the
> live stream going.  A friend of mine is interested in
> broadcasting some talks by the Dalai Lama in Maui
> in April.  Do you think camstreams could help us
> with this ?
>
> thanks
>
> Freeman Murray
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Haidai Nguyen < haidai_nguyen <at> yahoo.com>
> Date: Feb 22, 2007 10:39 PM
> Subject: hi
> To: Freeman Murray < fcmurray <at> gmail.com>, Freeman Murray < freeman <at> pobox.com>
>
>
> fm,
>
> I am working on a website for the Dalai Lama visit to Maui in April...
> i want to stream and webcast can you help? please!
>
> xo haidai
>
> ps miss ya
>
>
>  ________________________________
> Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
> Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>


Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel
to find your fit.

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Laura Forlano | 4 Mar 01:57 2007
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Picon

March Community Wireless Roundtable -- Monday March 5 11AM EST (4PM GMT)

Hi All.

This is a reminder that the March Community Wireless Roundtable discussion is Monday at 11AM EST (4PM GMT).  We will discuss ways that we can be involved in the International Community Wireless Summit in May.  Please send me additional genda items by tomorrow night.  See the call in details below.

Thanks, and I look forward to talking to you then.

Best,
Laura

Laura Forlano
Ph.D. Candidate, Communications, Columbia University
Board Member, NYCwireless
(212) 477-9542 (h) (646) 245-5388 (c)


Here are the details of the conference call: 

Through Gizmo:
Dial "CONFERENCE" (without the quotes)
Using the numeric keypad (bottom left corner icon of Gizmo window), enter the Room Number: 5355292 

Through a land line phone:
In the US, call 1-712-432-4015
Enter the Room Number: 5355292

IRC backchannel:
server: irc.freenode.net
room: #cwr
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Tracey P. Lauriault | 8 Mar 18:45 2007
Picon

Stats for African Organizers - and others too!

I looked as some Internet Stats on this tool.  Not Bad!

The data are well sourced and are
explained.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/int_int_ser_pro_percap-internet-service-providers-per-capita 

The data and indicators are from big well known sources and some 
alternative sources would make this a great tool.  Such as data from the 
"The world guide: an alternative reference to the countries of our 
planet" by the new internatinalist 
(http://www.newint.org/shop/nz/wg0506.htm).

I am sure you know of other good sources, and well, if you do i would 
send them to these folks as they seem to have a good thing going.

Enjoy!
Tracey

Via: civicaccess.ca list
John Kibuuka | 10 Mar 06:35 2007
Picon

Re: wsfii-discuss Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4

The indicators and the data are amazing!! Its unbelievable to see countries that we all thought should be ahead of the pack like the US in America, Tunisia (recently hosted the WSIS) far down the line.

Botswana, very much plagued by war for over 30 years, being the only country with more more isps per capita income!

Thanks for this info Tracey!

John Kibuuka


On 3/9/07, wsfii-discuss-request <at> lists.okfn.org <wsfii-discuss-request <at> lists.okfn.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Stats for African Organizers - and others too!
      (Tracey P. Lauriault)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 12:45:37 -0500
From: "Tracey P. Lauriault" <tlauriau <at> magma.ca>
Subject: [wsfii-discuss] Stats for African Organizers - and others
        too!
To: Discuss list on the World Summit on Free Information
        Infrastructure  <wsfii-discuss <at> lists.okfn.org>
Message-ID: < 45F04BC1.90805 <at> magma.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I looked as some Internet Stats on this tool.  Not Bad!

The data are well sourced and are explained.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/int_int_ser_pro_percap-internet-service-providers-per-capita


The data and indicators are from big well known sources and some
alternative sources would make this a great tool.  Such as data from the
"The world guide: an alternative reference to the countries of our
planet" by the new internatinalist
(http://www.newint.org/shop/nz/wg0506.htm).

I am sure you know of other good sources, and well, if you do i would
send them to these folks as they seem to have a good thing going.

Enjoy!
Tracey

Via: civicaccess.ca list



------------------------------

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http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wsfii-discuss


End of wsfii-discuss Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4
********************************************

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Patrice Riemens | 10 Mar 10:04 2007
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Picon

Re: Re: indicators


On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 08:35:29AM +0300, John Kibuuka wrote:
> The indicators and the data are amazing!! Its unbelievable to see countries
> that we all thought should be ahead of the pack like the US in America,
> Tunisia (recently hosted the WSIS) far down the line.
> 
> Botswana, very much plagued by war for over 30 years, being the only country
> with more more isps per capita income!
> 
> Thanks for this info Tracey!
> 
> John Kibuuka

Sorry John, but what you write here sounds a bit naive: 

(i) The US are known to lag behind everytime there is a technology that 
would benefit more from being run as a public infrastructure/utility or at 
least be well regulated for the public interest's sake than to be turned 
into a private facility/ investment/ profit machine: see mobile phones,
cable Tv and broadband deployment, etc etc

(ii) Botswana in war for 30 years? Not hat I know. When? (I stayed there 
in 1987/88 - unasy situation because of Apartheid S.Africa, but war... 
Botswana was even locked in a custom union with its unpalatable neighbour)

cheers, patrizio and Diiiinooos!
wsfii | 11 Mar 02:31 2007
Picon

Re: Stats for African Organizers - and others too!

Hi,

Tracey P. Lauriault schrieb:
> The data are well sourced and are explained.
but never believe any statistic you haven't faked yourself ;)

Interesting source you found, I was a little surprised by some facts like:

Germany:
Hosts: 3,021,130 *Definition:* Internet
<http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/Internet> hosts
<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/int_hos> in 2004
Linux web servers: 1,919 *Definition:* Total usage of Linux servers by
country as of Jan 2001

India:
Hosts: 143,654 *Definition:* Internet
<http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/Internet> hosts
<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/int_hos> in 2004
 Linux web servers: 25 *Definition:* Total usage of Linux servers by
country as of Jan 2001

This sounds for both cases way to less on the linux side, ok, I don't
have any other stats, but...

Anyway, nice comparing the countries by this data, thanks for pointing to it

regards,
Rene
Dan Flett | 19 Mar 06:03 2007
Picon

Do your country's Telco Regs help or hinder community networks?

Hi all,

I'm Dan Flett, I'm the President of Melbourne Wireless, a community wireless
group in Australia. Like most of you, we aim to create a non-profit
city-wide network. I'm guessing almost all of you are creating your network
to distribute Internet access to your members and/or the general community.

We would like to do the same, but the problem in Australia is that we need
permission from the Federal Government to do so.

Broadband is a fairly scarce resource here, and it isn't nearly as cheap or
as fast here as in other parts of the world. To provide a reasonable level
of Internet access to our network, we would need to cover our costs. In
order to receive payment in return for internet access in Australia, you
need to have a Carrier Licence. And if you have a Carrier Licence or operate
any sort of ISP you are subject to all sorts of regulations, including the
requirement to provide wiretap access to your network to law enforcement.

Basically, in Australia only commercial Telcos registered with the
Government can offer Internet access and receive money for it - even if it's
only on a cost-recovery basis. The regulatory burden placed on ISPs means
that no volunteer-run non-profit organisation can afford the licence fees or
keep up with the paperwork involved with providing internet access.

I'm interested in hearing if there are similar regulations in other
countries. What regulations is your network subject to? Are individuals or
organisations subject to rules or regulations when they (legally) share or
resell their internet access? Do commercial ISPs in your country see
community networks as competitors?

The letter below is a reply to a query from my predecessor, Melbourne
Wireless President Steven Haigh, from the Australian Federal Department of
Communications - the office of the Minister Helen Coonan.  Steven was asking
the Minister to make a "Ministerial Exemption" to exempt Melbourne Wireless
from needing a Carrier Licence. It pretty plainly spells out the
government's current attitude towards community wireless networks.

Frankly, it is embarrassing to see how backward their thinking is.

The major telcos in Australia are complaining about being over-regulated and
being not allowed to roll out Broadband networks on their terms. Australia
has a relatively low penetration of Broadband Internet, despite Australians
generally being early-adopters of new technologies. If the telco regulators
in Australia were serious about encouraging the proliferation of Broadband,
non-profit networks like Melbourne Wireless wouldn't be a threat to
commercial operators. I believe we could quite happily offer Internet on a
non-profit, best-effort basis and no commercial operator would notice.

I eagerly await your feedback on this issue!

Cheers,

Dan Flett

President, Melbourne Wireless
Melbourne, Australia
http://melbournewireless.org.au
president <at> melbournewireless.org.au

#### BEGIN LETTER TO 2006 MELBOURNE WIRELESS PRESIDENT FROM AUSTRALIAN
GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVE ####

Dear Mr Haigh,

CARRIER LICENSING AND EXEMPTIONS

Thank you for your email of 5 March 2006 to the Minister for Communications,
Information Technology and the Arts concerning the operations of Melbourne
Wireless and seeking advice on carrier license exemptions. The Minister has
asked me to reply on her behalf. 

I apologise for the delay in responding.

As you would be aware telecommunications licensing is managed by the
Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA). ACMA recommends that
persons or businesses wishing to apply for a carrier licence, a nominated
carrier declaration, or operating as a service provider should familiarise
themselves with these provisions of the Telecommuncations Act 1997 and the
Telecommunications (Consumer Protection and Service Standards) Act 1999.

The Telecommunications Act (Section 51) allows the Minister to grant an
exemption from the obligation to hold a telecommunications carrier license.

While this power exists, its use is limited. The obligation to hold a
carrier license and the related requirements associated with being a
licensed carrier are important to assure strong law enforcement, consumer
protection and service standards are met.

As a general rule, carrier license exemptions are only granted in
exceptional circumstances and where the exemption would not have a negative
impact on, or would benefit, the long term interested of telecommunications
users. An important consideration in this regard is whether the exempted
operator would compete with, and be advantaged relative to commercial
providers.

To ensure the similar treatment of fixed line and wireless networks under
the Telecommunications Act, a Ministerial Determination was issued in 2002
so that operators of wireless local area networks that provide services and
single premises did not require a carrier license or nominated carrier
declaration.

While I appreciate that you consider the service that you provide offer
community benefits, it would also be offered in competition with other
licensed operators as a commercial venture. As such, any exemption would not
be competitively neutral. It is unlikely, therefore, that a carrier license
exemption would be granted in these circumstances.

The Government recognises that license fees should not present an
unreasonable barrier to entry for telecommunications service providers. In
line with this, the carrier license charges were significantly reduced on 1
July 2004. The carrier license application charge was decreased from $10,000
to $2,200 and the fixed component of the annual carrier license charge fell
from $10,000 to less than $1,000. Several small scale service providers have
applied for, and received, carrier licenses under this reduced fee
structure.

Detailed information on carrier licensing and carriage service provider
obligations is provided by the ACMA at www.acma.gov.au (licensing), or can
be obtained by calling Mr Peter Skeen, Assistant Manager, Telecommunications
Licensing on 03 #### ####.

Thank you for bringing your concerns to the Minister's attention.

Yours sincerely

<signature>

JEREMY FIELDS

Assistant Adviser
Vickram Crishna | 19 Mar 06:58 2007
Picon

Re: Do your country's Telco Regs help or hinder community networks?

While it seems to me that to a large extent the
Australian regulations regarding carrier services are
laid out to specifically support providers of
commercial services, they do seem to have a window for
non-commercial activities. 

Perhaps MW needs to look at a model where your members
do not need to directly pay you a fee for anything,
not even for 'recovery' of costs. Self-ownership of
routers is one possibility, with paid maintenance
service provided by independent entrepreneurs who pay
MW a fee in return for directing them to business.
Local maintennce entrepreneurs could bid openly to
attend a service call depending on availability, type
of complaint etc, paying MW an over-riding commission
for providing the bidding environment. 

MW could also charge for maintaining a city-wide 'map'
of available connectivity, to aid mobile users, and
for a 'pass' to individual network 'cells'. I think it
is important to separate out the provision of the
local network from the city-wide 'quality of service'
issues, which is a throwback to telco ways of
thinking.

--- Dan Flett <conhoolio <at> hotmail.com> wrote:

> And if you have a
> Carrier Licence or operate
> any sort of ISP you are subject to all sorts of
> regulations, including the
> requirement to provide wiretap access to your
> network to law enforcement.
> 

And therefore, if you don't have a 'network' (because
it is in fact severally owned by member individuals,
and not any one entity) such provisions would not
apply?

> Basically, in Australia only commercial Telcos
> registered with the
> Government can offer Internet access and receive
> money for it - even if it's
> only on a cost-recovery basis. The regulatory burden
> placed on ISPs means
> that no volunteer-run non-profit organisation can
> afford the licence fees or
> keep up with the paperwork involved with providing
> internet access.
> 
> I'm interested in hearing if there are similar
> regulations in other
> countries. What regulations is your network subject
> to? Are individuals or
> organisations subject to rules or regulations when
> they (legally) share or
> resell their internet access? Do commercial ISPs in
> your country see
> community networks as competitors?

In India, while the rules are not so clearly (or
blatantly) spelt out in terms of competition between
telcos and data network service providers, this in
fact underlies the application of policy. 

There is a move to provide national accessibility to
broadband. At this point in time, the development of
this activity seems skewed towards favouring the
involvement of large organisations (who are called
service agencies).

You mentoned above that even sharing of access is 
legal - why not find a way to delink providing access
from the cost of service? Say, all members of the MW
community set aside some amount of their bandwidth for
free public access - MW charges a fee from managing
this activity, not for providing Internet access. 

> Frankly, it is embarrassing to see how backward
> their thinking is.

It is embarrassing to see that policymakers around the
world continue their top-down approach to governance
despite its obvious drawbacks. Smart and inclusive
thinking seems anathema. 

Do you have an environment for participatory
discussion of such issues, and would enough ordinary
citizens get engaged if discussions were encouraged?
This is an important factor in bringing about a more
inclusive approach. 

The reason I ask this is that in a related area, local
radio broadcasting, I understand the Australan
government has decided to enforce a shift from FM to
DAB, which involves a cost prohibitive to local
community based public service broadcasters. 

> 
> I believe we could quite
> happily offer Internet on a
> non-profit, best-effort basis and no commercial
> operator would notice.
> 

I hardly think so. In the short term, such services
would certainly cull out the rapacious providers of
overly expensive vanilla networks, leaving only the
super high-tech and 'added-value' quality conscious
providers of what today are considered premium
services. The consumer would benefit of course, but
perhaps that isn't so obvious to regulators. 

> I eagerly await your feedback on this issue!
> 
I don't think your post actually asked for such
suggestions, so please forgive any unwanted gratuitous
inputs on how to run your affairs.

Vickram

	
	
		
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Patrice Riemens | 19 Mar 07:21 2007
Picon
Picon

Re: Do your country's Telco Regs help or hinder community networks?

More 'gratuitous input' .... ;-)

Maybe, as 'F/OSSopher' ;-), I may add that one should always keep the 
'bottom line' in mind: in the type of fundamentalist marketism (aka 'the 
One-Idea System') we are living is, any activity that is not priced, 
actually any activity that is not undertaken for profit, is basically 
illegitimate and possibly illegal ("If the market is the law, anything 
outside the market is against the law" - Alain Minc, French 'public 
intellectual' - who approves of it btw). This mechanism, which translates 
itself most tellingly in legislation and regulation, operates largely by 
default (no wonder politicians exhort voluntarism, community building, etc 
etc in their public pronouncement) - and escapes attention.

I am saying this not to make some foggy philosophical/ideological point, 
but in order to caution people against unwaranted surprises and 
desilusionment. I am also not saying this to discourage initiatives. Just 
be aware ("a man worned is worth two" is another French proverb).

cheers - and make success! 
patrizio and Diiiinooos! 

On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 05:58:12AM +0000, Vickram Crishna wrote:
> While it seems to me that to a large extent the
> Australian regulations regarding carrier services are
> laid out to specifically support providers of
> commercial services, they do seem to have a window for
> non-commercial activities. 

(...)
Ramon Roca | 19 Mar 08:39 2007
Picon

Re: Do your country's Telco Regs help or hinder community networks?

Here our strategy:

-Our network is the result of aggregation of many network segments built 
by citizens, enterprises and organizations within the context of our 
Wireless Commons Livense/Manifesto. That is, the resulting global 
network is not commercial, neutral, therefore open to everybody incl. 
service providers. Do not compete with anybody and out of the scope of 
any market regulator.
-People are free to self provide (individually or as a comunity) any 
service over the network. Only when this becomes a commercial service, 
are required to become a licensed operator and follow the regulations. 
In any case, the services are not part of the network.

Not sure how are the regulations are over the world, but in general 
terms I would say that there is no need to have a law to legalize 
something to make it legal. I can shake my hands to a friend without 
needing a specific law authorising this...

We spoke with spanish regulators about this. They seem to agree that our 
approach is very logic, we are not out of the law, unless somebody 
rewrites the laws for adh-hoc forbiding wireless communities founded 
over wireless commons basements.

In other words, let's use our freedom. In general terms, there is no 
need to ask permission for use the freedom.

Anyway the big warning is that *must ve bery clear* to everybody 
(participants and regulators) the nature of the given network. We've 
seen opportunists building non wireless commons based networks acting 
just like amy commercial ISP and having a commercial interest, but 
trying to appear as a community to get the benefit of being out of the 
scope of the regulators. That can be understood as a fraud.

I think that's very inline with Vickram statements.

En/na Vickram Crishna ha escrit:
> While it seems to me that to a large extent the
> Australian regulations regarding carrier services are
> laid out to specifically support providers of
> commercial services, they do seem to have a window for
> non-commercial activities. 
>
> Perhaps MW needs to look at a model where your members
> do not need to directly pay you a fee for anything,
> not even for 'recovery' of costs. Self-ownership of
> routers is one possibility, with paid maintenance
> service provided by independent entrepreneurs who pay
> MW a fee in return for directing them to business.
> Local maintennce entrepreneurs could bid openly to
> attend a service call depending on availability, type
> of complaint etc, paying MW an over-riding commission
> for providing the bidding environment. 
>
> MW could also charge for maintaining a city-wide 'map'
> of available connectivity, to aid mobile users, and
> for a 'pass' to individual network 'cells'. I think it
> is important to separate out the provision of the
> local network from the city-wide 'quality of service'
> issues, which is a throwback to telco ways of
> thinking.
>
> --- Dan Flett <conhoolio <at> hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> And if you have a
>> Carrier Licence or operate
>> any sort of ISP you are subject to all sorts of
>> regulations, including the
>> requirement to provide wiretap access to your
>> network to law enforcement.
>>
>>     
>
> And therefore, if you don't have a 'network' (because
> it is in fact severally owned by member individuals,
> and not any one entity) such provisions would not
> apply?
>
>   
>> Basically, in Australia only commercial Telcos
>> registered with the
>> Government can offer Internet access and receive
>> money for it - even if it's
>> only on a cost-recovery basis. The regulatory burden
>> placed on ISPs means
>> that no volunteer-run non-profit organisation can
>> afford the licence fees or
>> keep up with the paperwork involved with providing
>> internet access.
>>
>> I'm interested in hearing if there are similar
>> regulations in other
>> countries. What regulations is your network subject
>> to? Are individuals or
>> organisations subject to rules or regulations when
>> they (legally) share or
>> resell their internet access? Do commercial ISPs in
>> your country see
>> community networks as competitors?
>>     
>
> In India, while the rules are not so clearly (or
> blatantly) spelt out in terms of competition between
> telcos and data network service providers, this in
> fact underlies the application of policy. 
>
> There is a move to provide national accessibility to
> broadband. At this point in time, the development of
> this activity seems skewed towards favouring the
> involvement of large organisations (who are called
> service agencies).
>
> You mentoned above that even sharing of access is 
> legal - why not find a way to delink providing access
> from the cost of service? Say, all members of the MW
> community set aside some amount of their bandwidth for
> free public access - MW charges a fee from managing
> this activity, not for providing Internet access. 
>
>   
>> Frankly, it is embarrassing to see how backward
>> their thinking is.
>>     
>
> It is embarrassing to see that policymakers around the
> world continue their top-down approach to governance
> despite its obvious drawbacks. Smart and inclusive
> thinking seems anathema. 
>
> Do you have an environment for participatory
> discussion of such issues, and would enough ordinary
> citizens get engaged if discussions were encouraged?
> This is an important factor in bringing about a more
> inclusive approach. 
>
> The reason I ask this is that in a related area, local
> radio broadcasting, I understand the Australan
> government has decided to enforce a shift from FM to
> DAB, which involves a cost prohibitive to local
> community based public service broadcasters. 
>
>   
>> I believe we could quite
>> happily offer Internet on a
>> non-profit, best-effort basis and no commercial
>> operator would notice.
>>
>>     
>
> I hardly think so. In the short term, such services
> would certainly cull out the rapacious providers of
> overly expensive vanilla networks, leaving only the
> super high-tech and 'added-value' quality conscious
> providers of what today are considered premium
> services. The consumer would benefit of course, but
> perhaps that isn't so obvious to regulators. 
>
>
>   
>> I eagerly await your feedback on this issue!
>>
>>     
> I don't think your post actually asked for such
> suggestions, so please forgive any unwanted gratuitous
> inputs on how to run your affairs.
>
>
>
> Vickram
>
>
> 	
> 	
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________ 
> New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail
Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. 
> http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk 
>
> _______________________________________________
> wsfii-discuss mailing list
> wsfii-discuss <at> lists.okfn.org
> http://lists.okfn.org/mailman/listinfo/wsfii-discuss
>
>
>   

Gmane