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Don Titmus | 1 Jun 2007 01:19

Re: Lawn

Me

Don Titmus, Mesa AZ

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J Kolenovsky" <garden@...>
To: <permaculture@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:28 AM
Subject: [permaculture] Lawn

> How many people do not have any lawn on their parcel of land? (city
> dwellers)
> 
> -- 
> J. Kolenovsky, habitat environmentalist  www.celestialhabitats.com
> Energy shortages proves its right. Peak Oil is changing your lifestyle.
> www.energybulletin.net www.peak-oil-news.info/  www.theoildrum.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@...
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> -go to the above link to subscribe to or unsubscribe from this list-
> 
>
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Lawrence F. London, Jr. | 1 Jun 2007 01:19

Re: Definition of area measurement; quarter acre in size

Lisa Rollens wrote:
> Paula,  I listened to David Blume talk at an OEFFA conference in OHio a 

one of the world's largest generators of airgas in that familiar excited molecular state

a foe of the permaculture movement

hope you weren't taken in by him
--

-- 
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
Venaura Farm
lfl@...
http://market-farming.com
http://market-farming.com/venaurafarm
http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech

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Kenneth Benway | 1 Jun 2007 01:36

Re: Definition of area measurement; quarter acre in size

Lisa: I went to David Blume's website. I'm a little confused. How is
David Blume a foe of the Permaculture movement? Please explain.
Ken Benway
ken@...
www.kenbenway.com

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@...
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
Lawrence F.
London, Jr.
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:19 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Definition of area measurement; quarter acre
in size

Lisa Rollens wrote:
> Paula,  I listened to David Blume talk at an OEFFA conference in OHio
a 

one of the world's largest generators of airgas in that familiar excited
molecular state

a foe of the permaculture movement

hope you weren't taken in by him
--

-- 
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
Venaura Farm
lfl@...
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Lawrence F. London, Jr. | 1 Jun 2007 02:00

Re: Definition of area measurement; quarter acre in size

Kenneth Benway wrote:

> Lisa: I went to David Blume's website. I'm a little confused. How is
> David Blume a foe of the Permaculture movement? Please explain.

I wrote that. Ask Bill Mollison about DB. Something about a PC design workshop at DB farm years ago.
A used car salesman & a chronologically linear stream of verbal flatulence. Managed to get
permaculture.com for himself, 
the least deserving owner of that prominent domain. Bill should have it.

--

-- 
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
Venaura Farm
lfl@...
http://market-farming.com
http://market-farming.com/venaurafarm
http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech

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permaculture mailing list
permaculture@...
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
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Toshio Kuratomi | 1 Jun 2007 02:40
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Re: repelling wolf spiders

On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 23:57 -0500, mIEKAL aND wrote:
        > spider migrations started last summer, hasn't started this
        summer yet  
        > as far as I know....   it's the main headquarters for
        Organic  
        > Valley...  there's a couple pics of it here (of the building):
        > 
        Do wolf spider migrations occur every summer?  I've noticed
        different breeds of spiders occur in waves here.  Last year we
        had black widows.  This year we have a small-medium sized, hairy
        black spider.  I've been wondering whether these other spiders
        are a predator of black widows and the population explosion last
        year is being consumed by these new spiders.

        This bears on your wolf spider issue because the hobo spider is
        a
        possibly poisonous spider that is known to be consumed by other
        spiders.  If your headquarters are in Washington State, you
        might want to let your officemates know that the wolf spiders
        might be eating other, less wanted guests.

        -Toshio

        P.S.  I used a dilute tea tree oil mixture to keep black widows
        out of my house last year.  But I'm not sure if it repels
        spiders or actually kills ones that cross over an area sprayed
        with it.  For a relatively harmless spider, I don't know that
        I'd want to risk using something that might kill them.

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Laura C Frazier | 1 Jun 2007 02:41
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Re: David Blume (was area of measurement)

Lawrence,
I visited the following web site to find out more about David Blume and 
learned that he is a permaculture teacher.  I'm wondering how he is a 
"foe of the permaculture movement" if he is in fact a permaculture 
design teacher.

Laura

"Life is a Mystery to be Lived, not a Problem to be Solved"
FarmGirl Arts & Consulting
Laura C Frazier, M.A., M.Div.
Kernersville, NC  27284
(336) 971-3834
http://www.geocities.com/farmgirlarts/Homestead.html

Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:19:04 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@...>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Definition of area measurement; quarter
	acre in size
Lisa Rollens wrote:
> Paula,  I listened to David Blume talk at an OEFFA conference in OHio a

one of the world's largest generators of airgas in that familiar 
excited molecular state

a foe of the permaculture movement

hope you weren't taken in by him
--

-- 
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
(Continue reading)

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Kenneth Benway | 1 Jun 2007 02:59

Re: Definition of area measurement; quarter acre in size

Lawrence
	I appreciate your reply. I agree that the Permaculture Institute
(Bill Mollison) should be the gateway for Permaculture.com. Has anyone
asked DB to relinquish that domain name to the institute? Actually I'm
not sure that dot coms are as important as they are made out to be. What
concerns me more here is that since we all know that Permaculture is
simply the fastest way out of our global mess and that cooperation not
competition is one of Permaculture's hallmarks perhaps our work would be
best served by not wasting time attacking each other when we have such
important work to accomplish and so little time to do it. I think both
Bill M, David H and DB would agree with that. Putting principles before
personalities is something that would move our mission forward more
effectively. Regardless of the history behind David Blume, based on what
I've seen about his work I certainly would not characterize him as a foe
of the Permaculture movement. 
Maybe it's time for an exercise in conflict resolution. Our work cannot
afford to become fragmented.
Sincerely,
Ken Benway
Arcadian Design
St Petersburg, Fl 

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@...
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
Lawrence F.
London, Jr.
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:01 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Definition of area measurement; quarter acre
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Lisa Rollens | 1 Jun 2007 04:01

Re: Definition of area measurement; quarter acre in size

Lawrence,

 I may be a little too old to be "taken" by anyone, but I was impressed with 
David Blume.  He was positive, encouraging and motivating, something that 
another PC teacher I know is not.  (no names, don't ask)  If he ended up 
with the pc.com site, maybe he was smarter, or quicker to the punch???

Lisa

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@...>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Definition of area measurement; quarter acre in 
size

> Lisa Rollens wrote:
>> Paula,  I listened to David Blume talk at an OEFFA conference in OHio a
>
> one of the world's largest generators of airgas in that familiar excited 
> molecular state
>
> a foe of the permaculture movement
>
> hope you weren't taken in by him
> -- 
> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> Venaura Farm
> lfl@...
> http://market-farming.com
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Robert Waldrop | 1 Jun 2007 04:33
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Re: Lawn

The last remnant of my lawn will be gone in the 
2nd year of implementation of the permaculture 
design for my property in central Oklahoma City. 
There's not much left.  One patch was overtaken by 
sand plums, elderberries, comfrey, apple mint, and 
some kind of wild onion that found its way here on 
its own.

I also have a patch of self-seeded tomato plants 
(there were Amish paste and Principe Borghese 
there last year), which is much denser than I 
would ever plant them. They are all growing and 
are very healthy, though, and in fact seem to be 
making their own support as they get bigger.  So 
I'm leaving them as an experiment to see what will 
happen.  I had earlier seeded it with some white 
Dutch clover, and that's looking great.

The Oklahoma drought has definitely been broken 
this year.  Soil moisture and lakes and streams 
are replenished statewide.  All of my perennials 
and trees are doing better than ever.  On Monday 
I'll harvest my first apricots, well, I've been 
nibbling them all week but Monday will be the big 
harvest and apricot jam making day.

Bob Waldrop, Oklahoma City

----- Original Message ----- >> How many people do 
not have any lawn on their parcel of land? (city
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Lawrence F. London, Jr. | 1 Jun 2007 05:06

Re: Definition of area measurement; quarter acre in size

Kenneth Benway wrote:

> Lawrence
> 	I appreciate your reply. I agree that the Permaculture Institute
> (Bill Mollison) should be the gateway for Permaculture.com. Has anyone
> asked DB to relinquish that domain name to the institute?

I don't know but someone should make the effort to pursuade Blume to give it to Bill.
For my money Blume's work in PC seems to have generated a mindset among his following
that Mollison's approach and teachings should be replaced with something more in alignment with
their approach to PC. I have heard such things as teaching about water, soil, plants, climate, ecology, etc etc
in a PC design curriculum is not worthwhile and that such things as permaculture schools, political parties,
and the like are much more important.
If people do not know how to maintain their own footprint, become independent and self sufficient and grow
their own 
food and live and eat in a healthy way then they will be lost. These are things that need to be taught in a PC
design 
course and how to do them cooperatively with others and build communities from a local or neighborhood
level to a global
one.

> Actually I'm
> not sure that dot coms are as important as they are made out to be. What

Until you need one and can't get the one you want.

> concerns me more here is that since we all know that Permaculture is
> simply the fastest way out of our global mess and that cooperation not
> competition is one of Permaculture's hallmarks perhaps our work would be
> best served by not wasting time attacking each other when we have such
(Continue reading)

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Gmane