thinking now we owe china so much that the mess is so grand that they have a monopoly on solar , wind and all hopeful energies. pedal on and be careful! so many are permanently out to lunch. emmy

Vulnerable are we like infants
We need eachother's care
Or we will suffer.

St. Catherine of Sienna

________________________________
From: Bill MacLane <billmaclane <at> gmail.com>
To: CarFree <at> yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, February 20, 2010 5:38:01 AM
Subject: Re: [CF] Digest Number 3060

Just like big oil and Harvey Firestone (the tire guy) schystered all the
cities out of their electric trollies and added their stinky busses to
pollute the air and cause congestion in the cities. IF big oil and some
others were out of the picture or used their brains instead of greed we'd
have hydrogen fuel cells running all the cars and probably one large one in
every neighborhood powering houses; no pollution; no electirc gird.

Bill

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:33 AM, AnnaLisa Wiley <carfree <at> sonic.net> wrote:

>
>
> “Electric cars pose no threat to Big Oil.”
>
> You’ve got to be kidding! Why do you think it has taken so long to get
> solar and wind power to a point of actually being usable? In the 70’s, Big
> Oil bought up all the new alternative energy patents they could get their
> hands on using bogus companies as fronts and then shelved the patents.
> That’s why, in the 90’s we had such a big alternative energy boom when those
> shelved patents expired and the inventions could finally be used.
>
> We have had micro-technology for years, doesn’t it strike you as odd that
> it has taken so long to develop batteries powerful enough to run cars and
> bikes?
>
> -AnnaLisa
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Problem? Email: CarFree-owners <at> yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

• New Members 1

OK, I need to comment on this..

I'm not a big fan of the oil companies or GM BUT.. that one wasn't their fault.

The GM conspiracy wasn't to put buses on the roads, just to manipulate what buses and equipment were being used; the Bradford-Snell conspiracy theory was soundly debunked by Adler years ago, but an enterprising sixth grader with a timeline could have seen that the theory wasn't panning out.

The loss of the Red Cars wasn't because some moustache-curling black hat wearing CEO had an evil plan ala Roger Rabbit. Rather, it was because the Red Cars hit the end of their serviceable life with no money available to repair them, and a host of suburbs blocking any attempt to get them the needed funds.

The same story played out in cities around the world where GM was nowhere in sight. It failed to play out in a couple of cases - such as Melbourne - simply because those cities had been so slow to put tram lines in that when other cities were ripping them out in favor of shiny streetcars, they still had new systems with lots of life ahead of them.

Second, I don't see the fascination with hydrogen; it's no solution. Hydrogen cells are just a variation on a battery, with a theoretical 33% loss rate; you'll still need to invest in the power plants to generate the 10+ Tw of power needed every day by today's traffic to zoom about in their massive vehicles on a lark.

Maybe we should follow the Sierra Club' suggestion in that regard and invest heavily in nuclear power plants, but most people tend to react badly to that idea. The usual solution thus far has been to rely on coal plants, and that would create a noteworthy net increase in pollution/CO2 emissions per capita.

Seriously, where do you think hydrogen comes from? The hydrogen fairies?

--- In CarFree <at> yahoogroups.com, Bill MacLane <billmaclane <at> ...> wrote:
> Just like big oil and Harvey Firestone (the tire guy) schystered all the
> cities out of their electric trollies and added their stinky busses to
> pollute the air and cause congestion in the cities. IF big oil and some
> others were out of the picture or used their brains instead of greed we'd
> have hydrogen fuel cells running all the cars and probably one large one in
> every neighborhood powering houses; no pollution; no electirc gird.
>
> Bill

• New Members 1

The solution, of course, is a totally free market.

But alas, 98% of "the people" believe government fulfills a socially useful purpose and they will continue to look to "policymakers" for solutions. "And an unregulated free market just doesn't work......does it???" Hope springs eternal.

Few want to truly accept the reality that government by its very nature (I normally say "government employees", since "government" doesn't exist -- forget the nice slogan, "...we are a government of laws, not men...") government always follows the money. Big money interests will always find ways to make clandestine concordats with senators and congressmen and prime ministers and presidents to "pass laws" that almost always have different effects than their stated purpose -- effects hopefully amenable to the lobbyists involved, but will keep the socialistically inclined sheeple satisfied.

I became car free in December for a number of reasons, none of them to associate me with any "reduce carbon footprint" movements or the like:

1. I like staying healthy (I'm probably as healthy as any 73 year-old man or woman in Des Moines, IA). I'm an avid biker.

2. I like frugality and saving resources for my grandchildren now approaching college age and needing of "help".

3. I hate the idea of feeding insurance companies who have crawled in bed with employees of civil government to force me under threat of violence to purchase their products.

4. I enjoy relative freedom from men and women in state costumes attempting to urge me to "show respect" for them and/or their laws.

With all due respect,

Geo. Keagle

________________________________
From: justice99645 <JusticeZero <at> mailsnare.net>
To: CarFree <at> yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 11:33:42 AM
Subject: [CF] Re: Digest Number 3060

OK, I need to comment on this..

I'm not a big fan of the oil companies or GM BUT.. that one wasn't their fault.

The GM conspiracy wasn't to put buses on the roads, just to manipulate what buses and equipment were being used; the Bradford-Snell conspiracy theory was soundly debunked by Adler years ago, but an enterprising sixth grader with a timeline could have seen that the theory wasn't panning out.

The loss of the Red Cars wasn't because some moustache-curling black hat wearing CEO had an evil plan ala Roger Rabbit. Rather, it was because the Red Cars hit the end of their serviceable life with no money available to repair them, and a host of suburbs blocking any attempt to get them the needed funds.

The same story played out in cities around the world where GM was nowhere in sight. It failed to play out in a couple of cases - such as Melbourne - simply because those cities had been so slow to put tram lines in that when other cities were ripping them out in favor of shiny streetcars, they still had new systems with lots of life ahead of them.

Second, I don't see the fascination with hydrogen; it's no solution. Hydrogen cells are just a variation on a battery, with a theoretical 33% loss rate; you'll still need to invest in the power plants to generate the 10+ Tw of power needed every day by today's traffic to zoom about in their massive vehicles on a lark.

Maybe we should follow the Sierra Club' suggestion in that regard and invest heavily in nuclear power plants, but most people tend to react badly to that idea. The usual solution thus far has been to rely on coal plants, and that would create a noteworthy net increase in pollution/CO2 emissions per capita.

Seriously, where do you think hydrogen comes from? The hydrogen fairies?

--- In CarFree <at> yahoogroups .com, Bill MacLane <billmaclane <at> ...> wrote:
> Just like big oil and Harvey Firestone (the tire guy) schystered all the
> cities out of their electric trollies and added their stinky busses to
> pollute the air and cause congestion in the cities. IF big oil and some
> others were out of the picture or used their brains instead of greed we'd
> have hydrogen fuel cells running all the cars and probably one large one in
> every neighborhood powering houses; no pollution; no electirc gird.
>
> Bill

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

• New Members 1

On 2 Mar 2010 at 17:33, justice99645 wrote:

> The loss of the Red Cars wasn't because some moustache-curling black hat
> wearing CEO had an evil plan ala Roger Rabbit. Rather, it was because the
> Red Cars hit the end of their serviceable life with no money available to
> repair them, and a host of suburbs blocking any attempt to get them the
> needed funds.
>
> The same story played out in cities around the world where GM was nowhere
> in sight. It failed to play out in a couple of cases - such as Melbourne -

I think your conception of "around the world" is largely restricted to
"around the English speaking world" (and to a fair extent France).

In many places on the mainland of Europe and in Japan trams never
stoped running and they have been gradually improved over time by
politicians who were far more sensible than the ones in the English
speaking world (and much of France).

Was it really accidental that all these politicians independently made
the same mistakes at the same time? Sounds unlikely to me. That need
not mean a conspiracy, though that is certainly a possibility, another
possibility is a wave of cultural delusion to do with thinking
everybody could and wanted to travel everywhere by car which swept them
all up.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents
me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/ukpga_20000023_en_8#pt3-pb3-l1g54

I have read very credible articles, essays, and books showing how GM
knowingly and purposely killed off buses and streetcars in the United
States. I've also read very credible articles, essays, and books stating
it's either a myth or not quite that simple.

My hunch is "they" gave Americans what we wanted. We had the post-war
wealth and resources to kick off the happy motoring craze. Unfortunately
our economy is structured to rely on cheap oil. That's in the process of
unraveling and I fear we're not going to adapt.

John

--
John Mayson <john <at> mayson.us>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jmayson

I, for one, am not contributing to this high number.

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2010/03/01/daily29.html

Texans have the second highest auto debt in the United States, an average $14,372 per borrower, according to aTransUnion quarterly report.

The Lone Star State barely edged out top debtors in Nevada, who owed an average $14,376 on their car in the fourth quarter 2009.

Austin drivers were in debt on average $13,518 during the same three months, according to sampling of 27 million anonymous credit files. During the fourth quarter 2008, capitol city drivers owed $13,701 on average.

Texas ranked 9th highest for 60-day car loan delinquency, with 1.01 percent compared to the national average of 0.81 percent. In Austin, about 0.85 percent of debtors were 60 days or more delinquent last quarter compared with 0.77 percent a year ago.

--
John Mayson <john <at> mayson.us>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jmayson

I was assaulted by the driver of RYR-950 who proceeded to buzz me with a
foot of clearance on 8th st around Nicollet ave in downtown Minneapolis and
then when I proceeded to inform you of the law you smacked my on the face
and then took off. I did call the cops and demanded to file an assault
report

My biggest possible let down of this whole deal is that the DA who according
to the officer will more than likely blow it off since I admitted I
approached the driver and he may claim he felt threatened by my 25 lb
bicycle and wool tights while he was encased in his 2K lb steel shell.

I guess I should just roll over and accept my place as a second class road
user

--
In Frith,
Devin
My blood is not my own,
but a gift borrowed from my ancestors,
to generations yet unborn.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In CarFree <at> yahoogroups.com, Devin <coultraguy <at> ...> wrote:

"...I guess I should just roll over and accept my place as a second
class road user..."

George responds:

We commuter bikers are not "second class" road users. But we are in the
minority. Some (very few, thankfully) drivers are rude, unkind AND
dangerous -- and they're threatening to bikers. We can't depend upon
employees of civil government [men and women in state issued costumes
:)] to "protect" us or to "take our side" when conflicts arise. They
don't and they won't -- even though some of them are patrolling
congested parts of downtown areas on bikes themselves nowadays.

As a young man I was taught: "If it's going to be, it's up to me". As
a biker I interpret that to mean I must accept the reality there are
more of "them" (cars, trucks & buses) than there are of "us". And
they're bigger and they're faster and they're more of a threat and many
of 'em feel that since they're paying a large tax with each gallon of
motor fuel they "own" the streets.

Not only that, out of a thousand drivers that pass you a certain
percentage are drunk, high, or simply incapable of staying out of
accidents. Many should never be allowed on public roads as drivers --
they have no driving skills -- but some 30 or more years previously
managed to slip through the cracks in a driving test and have been
allowed to "renew" licensing ever since. Government is not the most
efficient means to weed out incapable drivers.

I have to remember I am not sacrosanct just because I'm on a bicycle. I
personally avoid wearing "dandy" looking attire for that reason when out
on the streets commuting. I can afford Spandex, but I wear Wrangler.
Not that you should -- it's just my style.

I might have a "right" to the road, but a dead biker has no "rights".

Stay alive, stay safe, and don't let the bastards get you down!

Regards,

Geo. Keagle

> I was assaulted by the driver of RYR-950 who proceeded to buzz me with
a
> foot of clearance on 8th st around Nicollet ave in downtown
Minneapolis and
> then when I proceeded to inform you of the law you smacked my on the
face
> and then took off. I did call the cops and demanded to file an assault
> report
>
> My biggest possible let down of this whole deal is that the DA who
according
> to the officer will more than likely blow it off since I admitted I
> approached the driver and he may claim he felt threatened by my 25 lb
> bicycle and wool tights while he was encased in his 2K lb steel shell.
>
> I guess I should just roll over and accept my place as a second class
road
> user
>
> --
> In Frith,
> Devin
> My blood is not my own,
> but a gift borrowed from my ancestors,
> to generations yet unborn.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

=v= This week in the _Cul_de_Sac_ comic strip, the kids in
the day care have been yelling "Boo Boo Dum Dum Heads" at
cars. At the end of the week it was explained as a new
approach to community outreach:

http://www.gocomics.com/culdesac/2010/03/27/

Perceptive kids.

=v= This is one of the best comic strips going on today,
but it's with a syndicate that doesn't make archives
available online. If it did, you could see earlier strips
with the grandma who lives behind a chainlink fence and
pelts cars with eggs to protest cultural alienation.
<_Jym_>