Inez Hempstead | 11 Feb 22:33 2010
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Check out my photos on Facebook

 

Hi Car,

I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile.

Thanks,
Inez

To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=100000628191153&k=Z6E3Y5QY46WF5GGJP162TPSVT4IB42ZMVVIYC&r

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Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94304.

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John Mayson | 11 Feb 23:32 2010
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What I find most disturbing about the Toyota acceleration issue

 

I keep hearing over and over in the media about Toyota owners who were
injured or injured others when their cars suddenly accelerated. This begs
a very serious question that no one is asking. Are they driving the cars
or are the cars driving them? A driver who is truly in control of their
car will have no difficulty putting the car into neutral or turning off
the engine.

John

--
John Mayson <john <at> mayson.us>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jmayson

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fred | 12 Feb 00:13 2010
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Re: What I find most disturbing about the Toyota acceleration issue

 

When I first heard of the recall and the troubles with "runaway" motor
vehicles, my thoughts were similar to yours. "Safety" is not built in to
an automobile, any more than the level of skill of the driver.

Unfortunately, the level of skill of too many of today's drivers is so
poor that manufacturers have to build in "safety features" such as air
bags and crash-resistant structures. My wife is not what I would
consider a particularly technical person, but she knows how to turn the
key one click to off (not locking the column) and using the now-manual
steering and one-shot power brakes to remain in control and stop safely.

Aircraft pilots are given varying degrees of training, allowing for
varying degrees of qualification to fly different aircraft. Such
concepts applied to automobile driving would only improve safety, but
the public outcry would be excessive.

Living in Florida, I read often of efforts to require additional testing
of older drivers. I suggest that additional testing of all drivers
should eliminate the "age discrimination" aspect, but it would not
eliminate the oppostion, I believe.

--- In CarFree <at> yahoogroups.com, John Mayson <john <at> ...> wrote:
>
> I keep hearing over and over in the media about Toyota owners who were
> injured or injured others when their cars suddenly accelerated. This
begs
> a very serious question that no one is asking. Are they driving the
cars
> or are the cars driving them? A driver who is truly in control of
their
> car will have no difficulty putting the car into neutral or turning
off
> the engine.
>
> John
>
> --
> John Mayson john <at> ...
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/jmayson
>

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John Mayson | 12 Feb 00:51 2010
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Re: What I find most disturbing about the Toyota acceleration issue

 

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, fred wrote:

> Unfortunately, the level of skill of too many of today's drivers is so
> poor that manufacturers have to build in "safety features" such as air
> bags and crash-resistant structures. My wife is not what I would

None of which does anything for the safety of anyone outside of the car.
In fact commercials for the big trucks and SUVs brag about how they keep
you safe from everyone else.

> consider a particularly technical person, but she knows how to turn the
> key one click to off (not locking the column) and using the now-manual
> steering and one-shot power brakes to remain in control and stop safely.

My hunch is so many drivers are chronically distracted and don't even
realize their car is doing something they're not making it do and then
panic.

> Aircraft pilots are given varying degrees of training, allowing for
> varying degrees of qualification to fly different aircraft. Such
> concepts applied to automobile driving would only improve safety, but
> the public outcry would be excessive.

I personally think student drivers should have to spend many hours in
simulators just like student pilots. They need to prove they can handle
the vehicle under a wide array of real-world scenarios. Sure, this would
drive up the cost of getting a license considerably. But it would mean
lower insurance premiums, fewer deaths, and people would take their
responsibilities to other road users seriously because of how much time
and money they have invested.

Something I have always done even when I was 16 is anticipate. While I'm
driving I'm imagining what, worst case, the drivers around me could do and
what I would do to avoid it. It's very rare, but I have had to take
evasive measures to avoid a crash and have always been successful.

Think of the crew of that US Airways plane that ditched in the Hudson.
They were highly trained. I think we should expect the same level of
skill from drivers.

> Living in Florida, I read often of efforts to require additional testing
> of older drivers. I suggest that additional testing of all drivers
> should eliminate the "age discrimination" aspect, but it would not
> eliminate the oppostion, I believe.

I have spent about half my life in Florida. They did pass a law saying
drivers over a certain age had to retake the practical part of the
driver's test. The AARP sued and won. When I moved back in 1992 I was
getting my Florida license and an elderly man was taking the vision test.
The examiner was coaching him. "Sir, it's not an E... it's a letter than
looks like a E but it's missing a part... it's the next letter in the
alphabet..." I was disgusted.

John

--
John Mayson <john <at> mayson.us>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jmayson

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Randy Primeaux | 12 Feb 04:59 2010
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Re: What I find most disturbing about the Toyota acceleration issue

 

On Thu, Feb 11, John Mayson <john <at> mayson.us> wrote:
> I keep hearing over and over in the media about Toyota owners
> who were injured or injured others when their cars suddenly
> accelerated. This begs a very serious question....Are they driving > the cars or are the cars driving them?  A driver who is truly in
> control of their car will have no difficulty putting the car into
> neutral or turning off the engine.

Not all automobiles use a key to start and stop the electrical system.
Some use push buttons, and there is not yet a standard to that
interface, in terms of how long to push on the button to power off.

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Simon Norton | 14 Feb 17:11 2010
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Picon

safety training

 

The Hudson pilot was quoted as saying that his training had equipped him for a
once in a lifetime experience. I strongly suspect, though, that many people
forget skills they never have a chance to practise and therefore drivers would
have to be forced to take regular safety refresher courses if their enhanced
training was to do much good.

Simon Norton

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emmy koponen | 15 Feb 05:24 2010
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introduction

 



Vulnerable are we like infants
We need eachother's care
Or we will suffer.

St. Catherine of Sienna

hello! glad to join up, my name is emmy.


1. Which of the following best describes you? Please check one.
_x_ I do not presently own a car though I have owned a car previously.

2. How long have you been either car-free or used non-automotive transport as your
principle means of transportation?

i have used other forms of transport for the last seven years. in the last 40 years i have
preferred to bike, ski, ride, walk, train, bus over cars. just sold my last car!

3. What inspired your decision to reduce or end your reliance on the
automobile?

ooh, let me count the ways: they stink, pollute, are too fast, are selfish, kill, isolate, use
oil, cause wars, consume and spit toxins from tires. my father was killed in an auto wreck
when i was 16...i love fresh air!

4. What factors have either impeded or inspired your decision to reduce your reliance on
automotive transport?

not having a farm or animals my need is greatly reduced to haul feed, materials,etc..
having traveled more in the world i love the ease of public transport and having seen the
vast majority of people who are carless i have been inspired to further simplify and enjoy
life more. slow is better.

5. Has your transportational choices had any discernible effect on your family and
friends?

when i drove old rust bucket west in november one sibling was surprized that i owned a
car. in some ways i feel it rocks other's reality of zooming around. more on that later..
this is the southwest where trucks rule...

6. What are the advantages and disadvantages of being car-free and/or getting around
without using a car?

so many good points, i am still adjusting and having frustrating tire and pump problems.
planning to upgrade my bike with the sale of my car. hauling groceries and there is no side. i
am 45(?) miles from santa fe. the highway is scarey to me, so i take a bus but there is no
bike rack.

7. Do you typically feel comfortable recommending car-free living to your friends
and/or relatives? Why or why not?

i feel cutting down is easier to recommend. just to get people walking in parking lots or
a block or two is a major transition for some! driving the car one trip per day and having
carfree days i can suggest. sometimes i detect hostility so i can only do, not preach. people love their cars and they love to drive.

8. Have you experienced any adverse consequences of reducing or eliminating your
automotive dependency with regard to time and finances?

i do pay other's gas $, but it is way less than the car expense! getting philosophical about
time.

9. Have there been any benefits?

i just love being outdoors and staying in shape! i like to ride equines too and just may
have another mule, donkey, or horse again soon.

10. In an ideal world, what role should the car play in the general transportation system?

none! private taxis for the rich or disabled?

11. Do you have any other personal or general thoughts you've care to share on this
topic?

feeling liberated as a college graduate is buying my car...big step. wish more awareness
were present to let
people realize what they do to the earth and air when they drive. and to question driving.

12. Where do you live (city, state, country)? Dixon,N.M. USA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Bill MacLane | 15 Feb 11:59 2010
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Re: safety training

 

On Sun, Feb 14, Simon Norton <S.Norton <at> dpmms.cam.ac.uk>wrote:
>
> The Hudson pilot was quoted as saying that his training had equipped > him for a once in a lifetime experience. I strongly suspect, though,
> that many people forget skills they never have a chance to practise
> and therefore drivers would have to be forced to take regular safety > refresher courses if their enhanced training was to do much good.

Like the pilot practiced water landings with dead engines??????

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John Mayson | 16 Feb 04:48 2010
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Re: safety training

 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Bill MacLane <billmaclane <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 14, Simon Norton <S.Norton <at> dpmms.cam.ac.uk>wrote:
>>
>> The Hudson pilot was quoted as saying that his training had equipped > him for a once in a lifetime experience. I strongly suspect, though,
>> that many people forget skills they never have a chance to practise
>> and therefore drivers would have to be forced to take regular safety > refresher courses if their enhanced training was to do much good.
>
> Like the pilot practiced water landings with dead engines??????

Pilots practice every imaginable scenario in simulators including loss
of thrust and water landings.

John

--
John Mayson <john <at> mayson.us>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jmayson

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George Keagle | 16 Feb 05:04 2010
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Re: introduction

 

Welcome Emmy!

Like you, I became car-free for the first time in my 73 years (well, since I was 14 to be more accurate, so around 59 years). And I also am still making adjustments. Have been working this winter (I'm in Iowa) getting my road bike equipped to strip and fit into a recently purchased bike case to pack along on Greyhound to visit grandkids this summer. I can rent a car but have never traveled by Greyhound, so that will be an experience.

You sound like me in that I "gradualized" my transition -- the last two or three years my car logged less than 3000 miles per year. I have equipped myself with a Bob trailer and a Burley cargo trailer (I've bought Burley kid trailers for several of my grandkids and great grandkids). Invest in a decent trailer and you'll wonder why you ever drove to a grocery store.

Best of success to you in your new lifestyle -- you'll enjoy it! Regards,

Geo. Keagle

________________________________
From: emmy koponen <emmykoponen <at> yahoo.com>
To: CarFree <at> yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, February 14, 2010 10:24:17 PM
Subject: [CF] introduction

Vulnerable are we like infants
We need eachother's care
Or we will suffer.

St. Catherine of Sienna

hello! glad to join up, my name is emmy.

1. Which of the following best describes you? Please check one.
_x_ I do not presently own a car though I have owned a car previously.

2. How long have you been either car-free or used non-automotive transport as your
principle means of transportation?

i have used other forms of transport for the last seven years. in the last 40 years i have
preferred to bike, ski, ride, walk, train, bus over cars. just sold my last car!

3. What inspired your decision to reduce or end your reliance on the
automobile?

ooh, let me count the ways: they stink, pollute, are too fast, are selfish, kill, isolate, use
oil, cause wars, consume and spit toxins from tires. my father was killed in an auto wreck
when i was 16...i love fresh air!

4. What factors have either impeded or inspired your decision to reduce your reliance on
automotive transport?

not having a farm or animals my need is greatly reduced to haul feed, materials,etc. .
having traveled more in the world i love the ease of public transport and having seen the
vast majority of people who are carless i have been inspired to further simplify and enjoy
life more. slow is better.

5. Has your transportational choices had any discernible effect on your family and
friends?

when i drove old rust bucket west in november one sibling was surprized that i owned a
car. in some ways i feel it rocks other's reality of zooming around. more on that later..
this is the southwest where trucks rule...

6. What are the advantages and disadvantages of being car-free and/or getting around
without using a car?

so many good points, i am still adjusting and having frustrating tire and pump problems.
planning to upgrade my bike with the sale of my car. hauling groceries and there is no side. i
am 45(?) miles from santa fe. the highway is scarey to me, so i take a bus but there is no
bike rack.

7. Do you typically feel comfortable recommending car-free living to your friends
and/or relatives? Why or why not?

i feel cutting down is easier to recommend. just to get people walking in parking lots or
a block or two is a major transition for some! driving the car one trip per day and having
carfree days i can suggest. sometimes i detect hostility so i can only do, not preach. people love their cars and they love to drive.

8. Have you experienced any adverse consequences of reducing or eliminating your
automotive dependency with regard to time and finances?

i do pay other's gas $, but it is way less than the car expense! getting philosophical about
time.

9. Have there been any benefits?

i just love being outdoors and staying in shape! i like to ride equines too and just may
have another mule, donkey, or horse again soon.

10. In an ideal world, what role should the car play in the general transportation system?

none! private taxis for the rich or disabled?

11. Do you have any other personal or general thoughts you've care to share on this
topic?

feeling liberated as a college graduate is buying my car...big step. wish more awareness
were present to let
people realize what they do to the earth and air when they drive. and to question driving.

12. Where do you live (city, state, country)? Dixon,N.M. USA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

__._,_.___
  Problem?  Email:  CarFree-owners-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org
.

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