JamesJFitz | 1 Nov 03:50 2003
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Re: Criminals Fight Wal-Mart, Sprawl in Indiana


On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 "tomfrostjr" <tomfrostjr@...> writes:
>  
> TF: Don't be so sure such a thing can't exist. I lived in a holey 
> tent for 3 months while building my first house in the 1970s, with 
> a hauled-a-mile-by-hand-rickshaw (one 250-pound part at a time) pile 
> driver that I almost went into business with while I was at it and 
> which Mr. Matter's "patriots" would have liked to smash because it 
> used a VW engine to lift the hammer.
> 
> - Tom Frost Jr. (who thanks "theillusionist1" for bringing the most 
> balanced view into the oil-from-garbage debate a few posts back).

What part of a Vee Dubya engine is 250 pounds? And why a pile driver?
Was that instead of an outhouse? :-) :-) :-)

Jim

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tomfrostjr | 1 Nov 05:55 2003
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The homeless home builder (Was: Criminals)

--- In CarFree@..., JamesJFitz <at> J... wrote:
> 
> What part of a Vee Dubya engine is 250 pounds? 

TF: Not 250-pound engine parts; rather, 250-pound pile driver parts, 
the biggest single ones of which were the engine and the hammer at 
250 pounds each. (The engine was borrowed from my "cage", but even if 
it hadn't been, there was 3 miles of water which would have still 
impelled me to build the rickshaw to rely on while on the island 
where I aimed to live.) I guess 250 pounds was the weight of the 
average one of the several dozen rickshaw loads that it took to build 
the 16'x16', 2-story house. The heaviest 9 loads, consisting of the 9 
pilings, were perhaps 400 pounds each. On the hard sand of low tide, 
I usually pushed or pulled the rickshaw by hand (the handle consisted 
of an ~14' piece of driftwood lumber), but with the lightest loads, I 
could pull it behind a one-speed balloon-tired bike that I kept out 
there. 

> And why a pile driver?

Because I built the house on sand! (Sort of like cycling-advocacy 
organizations that don't base their positions on the Bicyclists' 
Rights Triad http://www.newmilfordbike.com/Triad.htm !) And sand is 
what I had my head in, about the fact that this Virginia barrier 
island was migrating west (and it turned out to be doing so at more 
feet per average year than I thought). That's why my dream house is 
no longer there! But it lasted more decades than most of them out 
there, as a result of the pilings being driven 8 feet in like the 
rich guys do. 

(Continue reading)

Gene Edinger | 1 Nov 17:17 2003
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Re: Jensen on Consumerism vs Conscience (long but worth it)

--- In CarFree@..., De Clarke <de <at> u...> wrote:
> 
> Jensen is one of my favourite Texans :-) a humane, 
> compassionate and thoughtful writer. and there's a para or two 
> in here about cars, urban form, and choosing not to drive.  he 
> also addresses the vexed questions of dogma and illusory 
> purity, the inadequacy but absolute necessity of good 
> intentions, etc. 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Can Big Houses and Global Justice Coexist?
> A Moral Level of Consumption?
> 
> By ROBERT JENSEN
> ...

Thank you for the article.  I found it both elucidating and 
disturbing.  It confirmed my belief that one's life should be lived 
simply, in the words of Gandhi, that others may simply live.  From a 
personal point of view it also was a disturbing article!  My score 
on the "purity test", despite my carfree vegetarian lifestyle, 
placed me in little better stead than my fellow consuming 
Americans.  

Then as I further considered the article, it struck me that it's 
addressing two issues but only discusses one -- Jensen talks about 
our rapacious first-world lifestyle.  I have no argument with that 
and am appalled at what we've done to foul our planet.  But what is 
unstated in Jensen's piece is the problem of gross overpopulation 
(Continue reading)

Steven Schoeffler | 1 Nov 20:13 2003

Clear Channel DJs advocate violence against bicyclists

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=9&u=/ap/20031101/ap_on
_en_ot/radio_stations_bicyclists

Bicyclists Accuse DJs of Inciting Attacks

By CONNIE MABIN, Associated Press Writer

CLEVELAND - Bicyclists are demanding that the nation's largest radio group
be punished because disc jockeys at three stations made on-air comments they
say encouraged drivers to throw bottles at bike riders or hit them with open
car doors.

They say the morning show hosts at Clear Channel Communications stations in
Cleveland, Houston and Raleigh, N.C., also suggested motorists blast horns
at cyclists, and speed past them and slam on their brakes in front of them.

"DJs encouraging the masses to hurt people in any form is insipid, and
should not go unpunished," said Edwin D. Reeves, 30, a cyclist and ceramic
engineer in St. Louis.

Clear Channel, based in San Antonio, owns roughly 1,200 radio stations in
the United States.

The company won't release transcripts or tapes of the broadcasts, but the
three stations apologized on the air and Clear Channel donated $10,000 and
air time to promote bicycle safety.

"We deeply regret that comments made by on-air personalities were
misinterpreted. Clear Channel does not condone violence in any form and we
are committed to working with the cycling community to improve cycling
(Continue reading)

Simon Norton | 1 Nov 23:12 2003

various

1. Thanks for referring us to the article linking the California fires with
Schwarzenegger, whose URL I passed on to a fellow activist (and Anerican) in
Cambridge.

2. When I was first referred to the other California article (the one in the NY
Times), I managed to get through to it without being asked to register as De
Clarke was. Now I get the request to register as she did.

3. PONY cabs of New York is not "infinitely" recursive; it merely expands to
Pedicabs of New York cabs of New York. It's no worse than, say, referring to the
UNESCO organisation.

4. There's a slight mistake in the fossil fuel/plant calculations: Given that
plants produce coal, oil and gas, one shouldn't base the calculations on the
assumption that only one is being produced by the plant, which is what seems to
have been done.

In addition, it's a bit meaningless to criticise presnt policies as "living off
the capital rather than the interest" when fossil fuel in the ground doesn't in
fact produce any interest.

5. Thanks for posting the article on the problems of abundance. The fact that
abundance can cause problems is so well known as to be familiar in some sectors
(e.g. drugs), so it's a bit dodgy for Tom Frost (or was he quoting someone else)
to ridicule members of the car-free cities group for fearing the consequences of
cheap energy.

I don't think there is any sector where abundance causes so many problems to
those who don't want the product as cars, except possibly guns. It's not
consumers who are worried about the effects of cheap high quality music, and I
(Continue reading)

Jym Dyer | 2 Nov 02:30 2003

Re: various

> PONY cabs of New York is not "infinitely" recursive; it merely
> expands to Pedicabs of New York cabs of New York.

=v= What I meant was, if it *was* PONYcabs Of New York, it would
be infinitely recursive.

> It's no worse than, say, referring to the UNESCO organisation.

=v= Or putting a PIN number in an ATM machine?
    <_Jym_≥

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De Clarke | 2 Nov 03:39 2003

Re: Re: Jensen on Consumerism vs Conscience (long but worth it)

Gene Edinger (pfoxtrot@...) wrote:
> Thank you for the article.  I found it both elucidating and 
> disturbing.  It confirmed my belief that one's life should be lived 
> simply, in the words of Gandhi, that others may simply live.  From a 
> personal point of view it also was a disturbing article!  My score 
> on the "purity test", despite my carfree vegetarian lifestyle, 
> placed me in little better stead than my fellow consuming 
> Americans.  

yes it is disturbing... I have visited the "footprint" site from time
to time and am always downhearted by how much I'm still overconsuming --
I don't know which is worse:  realising how far I have still to go towards
a sustainable life, or realising how insanely outrageous is the over-
consumption of my age cohort which dwarfs my own.  I start feeling
all virtuous by comparison, until I visit the site again :-)

I was talking to a very old friend t'other day, someone w/whom I've
had far-ranging conversations for over 20 years about right and wrong,
the future, hope and Doom, etc.   she has recently started (I'd like
to think this is inspired by me, but more likely just the gradual
process of her own thinking) to choose local foods, learn more about
where our food comes from  etc.  and she tries to drive her car less
and less.  we were talking about petroleum and the forseeable drawdown
of world oil reserves, and she said that it was very hard for her to
talk to anyone else about these things.

I was curious and asked what made it hard, and she said (wtte) "I
just don't know a single person except you, who believes that things 
have to change, that things aren't going to just go on being the same 
as they are now.  If I try to talk to my friends or family about running 
(Continue reading)

JamesJFitz | 2 Nov 05:12 2003
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Re: Re: various


On 01 Nov 2003 17:30:48 -0800 Jym Dyer <jym@...> writes:
> > PONY cabs of New York is not "infinitely" recursive; it merely
> > expands to Pedicabs of New York cabs of New York.
> 
> =v= What I meant was, if it *was* PONYcabs Of New York, it would
> be infinitely recursive.
> 
> > It's no worse than, say, referring to the UNESCO organisation.
> 
> =v= Or putting a PIN number in an ATM machine?
>     <_Jym_≥

Or interrupting an IRQ?

Jim

I was interrupted by stupid reality again -Homer Simpson

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(Continue reading)

Lorenzo L. Love | 2 Nov 07:35 2003
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Re: Re: Jensen on Consumerism vs Conscience (long but worth it)

De Clarke wrote:
> Gene Edinger (pfoxtrot@...) wrote:
> 
>>Thank you for the article.  I found it both elucidating and 
>>disturbing.  It confirmed my belief that one's life should be lived 
>>simply, in the words of Gandhi, that others may simply live.  From a 
>>personal point of view it also was a disturbing article!  My score 
>>on the "purity test", despite my carfree vegetarian lifestyle, 
>>placed me in little better stead than my fellow consuming 
>>Americans.  
> 
> 
> yes it is disturbing... I have visited the "footprint" site from time
> to time and am always downhearted by how much I'm still overconsuming --
> I don't know which is worse:  realising how far I have still to go towards
> a sustainable life, or realising how insanely outrageous is the over-
> consumption of my age cohort which dwarfs my own.  I start feeling
> all virtuous by comparison, until I visit the site again :-)

This footprint site fails to ask the most important question: How many 
more people have you burdened the Earth with by reproducing?
You can be a vegan, never drive and grow all you own food but if have 
kids, you are destroying the planet. No kids and it matters little how 
wasteful your life is as it's limited to your lifetime. Have kids and it 
goes on forever. If people just stop having so many babies, there 
wouldn't be a problem.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

(Continue reading)

Rachel | 2 Nov 14:39 2003

Re: Environmental Patriots Fight Wal-Mart, Sprawl in Indiana

I have to agree that violence against the construction company is not 
a good method.  Too many construction companies are running on the 
edge and construction workers usually work or don't get paid.  If 
union they get decent pay but not over much considering how hard they 
work, but if they don't work they get nothing.

On this vein, even most WM employees are living from paycheck to 
paycheck and can't afford the loss of a job.  I really think that 
education and boycott is the best method to use.  I realize that this 
can be mind numbingly slow but every time violence is used it's not 
the owners/stockholders who are harmed but the workers.  Included, 
again, in those that get hurt are often the construction company 
owners since these bid as low as possible to just get the job and 
aren't making as much money as most people think.

--- In CarFree@..., Cheyanne & Randy <bayoubuddies <at> s...> 
wrote:
> Just because you are in the minority doesn't mean you shouldn't 
speak 
> up.  Speaking up opens the door to those who might not otherwise 
have 
> the courage to speak out against the violence in the name of the 
> environment.  Sounds kind of like killing in the name of the Lord, 
> doesn't it?  That's another thread, though :)
> 
> I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think harming 
equipment 
> belonging to a construction company is the answer either. ducation 
is 
> probably the answer, but teaching through destruction is going to 
(Continue reading)


Gmane