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Andras Toth | 1 May 2006 13:41
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Re: Bicycles as environmental goods

I am no economist, so could you list some other advantages of 
removing international tariffs and trade barriers on bicycles than 
the price for the end-user?
Would it not mean that the imported junk bicycles you get from the 
supermarkets will be even cheaper than today, thereby creating an 
even more unsurmountable competition for the inevitably more 
expensive quality bicycles?
I know it is simplistic to say that cheap bicycles are all bad and 
that the good ones can only be big names worth at least 600 USD, on 
the other hand we cannot deny either that someone unexperienced could 
be deterred from everyday cycling by a bad quality bicycle.

Andras Toth

At 00:15 29/04/2006, you wrote:
>Nice info, maybe we could find a way to support? Letters signed by many
>parties, etc.
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>Source: http://itdp.org/STe/ste21/wto.html
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>WTO Negotiations Open Possibility of Defining Bicycles as Environmental
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Richard Risemberg | 1 May 2006 15:17
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Re: Bicycles as environmental goods


On May 1, 2006, at 4:41 AM, Andras Toth wrote:
> I know it is simplistic to say that cheap bicycles are all bad and
> that the good ones can only be big names worth at least 600 USD, on
> the other hand we cannot deny either that someone unexperienced could
> be deterred from everyday cycling by a bad quality bicycle.
Yes, it's true about the effect of bad bicycles, but the problem is  
that even the good ones are imported, for the most part.

Kogswell.com is in the process of contracting a Taiwanese factory to  
make a quality commute bike--better than the Dutch style stuff for US  
distances--that they hope to sell for around $200.  That's still more  
than Wal*Mart/K-Mart rices, but I know Kogswell's quality and it  
would be immeasurably better.   There is NO ONE attempting this in  
the US despite considerable unused industrial infrastructure and a  
lot of people with good hands and eyes looking for work.  I have been  
making hints on the bike forums that perhaps the folks I know of that  
are setting up bicycle factories in Ukraine, Africa, etc. and  
training locals in framebuilding could do the same thing in the US  
and tie in with local marketing/design companies such as Kogswell.

But as long as cheap oil subsidizes the boat ride over from China,  
and as long as Americans are willing to compromise every possible  
fragment of product quality for a low price, it will be difficult.   
Even Taiwan bikes are "too expensive" for many Americans--Americans  
who have money even.  They're unusable, being really just frail icons  
of bicycles, but they're cheap, and it's illusions we buy here in the  
land of products made to be sold, not to be used.  The illusion of  
freedom a car gives you while putting you in bondage, the illusion of  
community in suburbs with quaint monikers where you don't know your
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Rory McMullan | 2 May 2006 12:01
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Re: [NewMobilityCafe] Bicycles as environmental goods

I support reducing the cost of bicycles to the general public, and believe if quality commuter bicycles and
accessories can be purchased at lower cost then the numbers purchased will grow, as the financial barrier
to cycling is reduced.

  This is particularily potent as theft is a major problem, and it is estimated that cyclists who suffer loss
of bikes through theft more than twice cease cycling.

  If the price of bicycles for commuting is reduced, resell value will be limited, and theft rates lowered.

  However the industry is mainly against it in the EU.

  At the moment bicycles imported to the UK attract a 15% standard import duty and an extra 45% anti dumping
duty for those made in China and aout 30% dumping duty for Vietnam.

  This is an effort to protect domestic EU bicycle manufacturers, which are now very few in Western Europe,
although several bicycle assembly plants have been established in Poland and Romania.

  Production has shifted to Bangladsh, Thailand, Cambodia, Sri Lanka and The Phillipines to avoid EU
imposed Anti Dummping Duty (ADD).

  Many bicycle companies in the UK also believe that the bicycle market is fixed at about 2m a year and any
reduction in the cost of a bike simply reduces the amount of money in the industry, and so is generally
supportive of trade barriers.

  As regards sustainability a trade barrier protecting domestic production can perhaps be viewed as a
positive thing, reducing transport to the market, however as most large EU producers are assembly plants
they still require import of the parts.

  One suggestion that might gain more universal support might be removal of trade barriers on commuter bikes
and accessories only, with mudguards, sensible smooth rolling tires, reflectives etc.
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Todd Edelman | 2 May 2006 12:26

Re: Re: [NewMobilityCafe] Bicycles as environmental goods


Rory wrote:
> I support reducing the cost of bicycles to the general public, and believe
> if quality commuter bicycles and accessories can be purchased at lower
> cost then the numbers purchased will grow, as the financial barrier to
> cycling is reduced.

OK, but, well, to make a "citizen's arrest" here, I don't think is this
list is the right place for a discussion just about bikes. I want to hear
if changes in duties and tariffs improves (or doesnt) the chances for
carfree cities in general, and the other repurcussions of the changes in
duties, etc and as some have said these could counteract any climate
benefits of carfree cities due to increased transport.

- T
------------------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
International Coordinator
On the Train Towards the Future!

Green Idea Factory
Laubova 5
CZ-13000 Praha 3

++420 605 915 970

edelman@...
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Todd Edelman | 2 May 2006 13:31

US Light Rail Booms

US Light Rail Booms

Light rail has more than lived up to its expectations in North America and
has led to a major rail revival in cities across the continent.

http://www.railjournal.com/A/xfeature3.html

------------------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
International Coordinator
On the Train Towards the Future!

Green Idea Factory
Laubova 5
CZ-13000 Praha 3

++420 605 915 970

edelman@...
http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain

Green Idea Factory,
a member of World Carfree Network

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carfree_cities/
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Christopher Miller | 2 May 2006 16:22
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Re: US Light Rail Booms

I'm taking the liberty of combining threads here, partly in answer to  
"citizen cop" 's misgivings over an earlier bike-centred thread... ;-)

There have been some rather interesting general/theoretical  
discussions recently on our sister "Carfree" (living) list: one thing  
that came up just a couple of days ago was a link to a San Francisco  
Bay area activist group's page on bike facilities on (urban) train  
systems around the world. The page is mostly pictures with spare  
commentary, but it's worth keeping mind the traditional exchange rate  
for calculating the relative value of pictures against words... As  
rail again (and the faster the better) gains predominance over  
private automobiles in cities, planners *really* need to remember the  
central importance of *effectively* integrating bicycles -- the  
*other* main city-friendly and humane transit mode -- with the mass  
transit system...

Here's the URL:

  ----------

Cheers & best regards,

Chris Miller

On May 2, 2006, at 7:31 AM, Todd Edelman wrote:

> US Light Rail Booms
>
> Light rail has more than lived up to its expectations in North  
> America and
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Todd Edelman | 2 May 2006 16:34

Re: US Light Rail Booms


> I'm taking the liberty of combining threads here, partly in answer to
> "citizen cop" 's misgivings over an earlier bike-centred thread... ;-)
>
Hi,

A bike-thread woven into the carfree fabric is the goal, ja? And lightrail
is certainly just as important a piece of the garment. The discussion was
just becoming one about bikes, not putting it into the larger context (I
love bikes, am about to get on mine now) so yes I was wrong to just post
the light-rail thing without asking questions such as, e.g., how we can
get this interest to go beyond park+ride, etc.

and your url was missing...

t

------------------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
International Coordinator
On the Train Towards the Future!

Green Idea Factory
Laubova 5
CZ-13000 Praha 3

++420 605 915 970

edelman@...
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Christopher Miller | 2 May 2006 17:11
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Re: US Light Rail Booms

On May 2, 2006, at 10:34 AM, Todd Edelman wrote:

>> I'm taking the liberty of combining threads here, partly in answer to
>> "citizen cop" 's misgivings over an earlier bike-centred  
>> thread... ;-)
>
> A bike-thread woven into the carfree fabric is the goal, ja?

...wohl... !

> And lightrail
> is certainly just as important a piece of the garment. The  
> discussion was
> just becoming one about bikes, not putting it into the larger  
> context (I
> love bikes, am about to get on mine now) so yes I was wrong to just  
> post
> the light-rail thing without asking questions such as, e.g., how we  
> can
> get this interest to go beyond park+ride, etc.

I agree with you completely ,Todd: no criticisms were meant, nor any  
quibbles with your point (and note the good-humoured wink at the end  
of my 2 cents worth...)

> and your url was missing...

Thanks for pointing that out. It's rather strange that it didn't show  
up in the actual posting since I could clearly see it in my outgoing  
message. Probably has something to do with the fact I dragged it into
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Andie Miller | 3 May 2006 00:22
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A question re Colombia

Hi All

Not quite a carfree question, but thought someone here might know ...
Perhaps I am confusing it with Carfree Day, but I seem to remember reading
something to the effect of, in Bogata, on one day a year, only women are
allowed on the streets. Am I hallucinating? Anyone know anything about this?

Thanks
Andie

 
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Carlos F. Pardo SUTP | 3 May 2006 04:04
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RE: A question re Colombia

Yes, Antanas Mockus (mayor 1995-1998 and 2001-2004) was the one who
implemented the "no-men's day", which was a Thursday in March where men
weren't allowed to go on the streets... actually, the only enforcement was
that, if a man wanted to go out that night, you should sign a paper "giving
yourself permission" to go out.

The interesting thing about that day was that crime rates and violence
dropped impressively, also deaths. The following Thursday, it was "no
women's day", and men were the ones who were supposed to go out on their
own. The funny thing was that men wouldn't go out on their own, and this day
was a typical Thursday. It makes you think a lot. There must be some stats
buried somewhere, but I'm not in Bogotá right now to dig them up.

I'm thinking now why I'm answering this in a carfree list, but I sure
enjoyed the day (I actually knew my wife on one of these no-men days, but in
the afternoon).

Best regards,

Carlos F. Pardo 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: carfree_cities@... [mailto:carfree_cities@...]
En nombre de Andie Miller
Enviado el: Martes, 02 de Mayo de 2006 05:23 p.m.
Para: Carfree Cities
Asunto: [carfree_cities] A question re Colombia

Hi All
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Gmane