Richard Fillion | 1 Jan 01:47 2006

Re: Re: Uuu-devel Digest, Vol 25, Issue 4

Or.... you could ask a mailing list or IRC channel that's related to  
the problem ;)

Richard Fillion
rfillion <at> cs.und.edu

On Dec 31, 2005, at 2:35 PM, Matthew Marshall wrote:

> Most likely, you will need to use ndiswrapper:
> http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/
>
> I beleive that ndiswrapper is already included in arklinux, and  
> many drivers
> are availible in the package repository.  Search the arklinux forum  
> from
> 'ndiswrapper'
>
> MWM
>
> On Saturday 31 December 2005 11:15, Johnston Jiaa wrote:
>> I found a Linux distribution that I liked.  I did a
>> search on Google and eventually found ArkLinux.  I
>> downloaded the ISO, installed it on my laptop, but I
>> can't seem to get my wireless thing to work.  I don't
>> think ArkLinux had the driver?  Something like that.
>> Greatly appreciated if anyone at all can help.
>>
>> Johnston Jiaa (artificiallystupid <at> yahoo.com)
>>
>>
(Continue reading)

Johnston Jiaa | 1 Jan 19:40 2006
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Re: Uuu-devel Digest, Vol 26, Issue 1

Yes, ndiswrapper was included and I solved the problem within 10 minutes of asking for help.  I'm sorry for my ignorance and wasting your time (if I did at all.)  Thank you all for your consideration.  :)

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Johnston Jiaa | 1 Jan 19:52 2006
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Re: Uuu-devel Digest, Vol 26, Issue 1

Since there isn't much apparent discussion currently going on, I was wondering if anyone could explain to me what the Uuu user interface is going to be like.  At the intro page, the section is labeled 'A Better User Interface', but it doesn't address at all what it will be or how it is better.  It only says what it isn't going to be.  Even then, it is very vague about that too.  An explanation, greatly appreciated.

Johnston Jiaa (artificiallystupid <at> yahoo.com)

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Richard Fillion | 1 Jan 20:24 2006

Re: Re: Uuu-devel Digest, Vol 26, Issue 1

Use the 'ion' window manager for X11, and you'll have an idea of an  
interface that we found sucked less.

Richard Fillion
rfillion <at> cs.und.edu

On Jan 1, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Johnston Jiaa wrote:

> Since there isn't much apparent discussion currently going on, I  
> was wondering if anyone could explain to me what the Uuu user  
> interface is going to be like.  At the intro page, the section is  
> labeled 'A Better User Interface', but it doesn't address at all  
> what it will be or how it is better.  It only says what it isn't  
> going to be.  Even then, it is very vague about that too.  An  
> explanation, greatly appreciated.
>
> Johnston Jiaa (artificiallystupid <at> yahoo.com)
>
> Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
> _______________________________________________
> Uuu-devel mailing list
> Uuu-devel <at> unununium.org
> http://unununium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uuu-devel
Elmo Mäntynen | 1 Jan 23:56 2006
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Re: Re: Uuu-devel Digest, Vol 26, Issue 1

As it should be evident from the response, there isn't anything close to
a full consensus about the UI beyond the mensioned "what it isn't  going
to be". Why not start a discussion about that that, or more precisely,
continue this already started thread=). As a start, I'd suggest
considering eye-tracking a possible input method, as I discussed in a
mail to this list a while ago. It's a realistic option, not easy but
defenetely in our reach. It would draw attention at least, and even
bring some usefullness, which Uuu doesn't have. You should read through
the dasher's(deb-package dasher, interesting input method using the
mouse) webpage: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/(doesn't seem
to work at the moment). Also, http://iki.fi/tuomov/vis/(same author as
Ion), would be a good read, as it addresses a major problem with current
"top-notch" gui-program designs.

Richard Fillion wrote:

> Use the 'ion' window manager for X11, and you'll have an idea of an 
> interface that we found sucked less.
>
> Richard Fillion
> rfillion <at> cs.und.edu
>
> On Jan 1, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Johnston Jiaa wrote:
>
>> Since there isn't much apparent discussion currently going on, I  was
>> wondering if anyone could explain to me what the Uuu user  interface
>> is going to be like.  At the intro page, the section is  labeled 'A
>> Better User Interface', but it doesn't address at all  what it will
>> be or how it is better.  It only says what it isn't  going to be. 
>> Even then, it is very vague about that too.  An  explanation, greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Johnston Jiaa (artificiallystupid <at> yahoo.com)
>>
>> Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
>> _______________________________________________
>
Ronald Vos | 2 Jan 23:01 2006
Picon

Re: Another idea

I'm surprised noone bothered to reply yet. Probably a sign most think 
it's a decent or good idea. ;)
IMHO, a modern OS should have at the very least have filehandlers. One 
of the great ideas AmigaOS and BeOS used, and the other OSes are still 
behind on. Extend it to protocols in general in an Object-oriented 
system, and you got a component-based OS like (I think) is envisioned.

Henning Hasemann wrote:

>Err... I tend to forget attachements :-/
>
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>At first, I dont know much about how the terms URI and URL are exactly
>definied, but I am used to use them, as probably every reader is.
>
>The old idea: files and a few other thing, everything else is exotic
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Well in the file-orientated world of unix and its clones
>(I mainly have experience with Linux) the is no real place for things like
>domains. For example it is not possible to make a symlink to a website.
>So thex invented protocol-notation like the well known http:// to give things
>that are retrieved in "strange" ways such as over the internet its own
>namespace.
>This make some things easier as the namespaces cant interfere and it reflects
>somehow the underlying hard- and software-structure.
>But that exactly is the problem: Unix tried to unify everything with its
>single-tree filesystem (see the devices nodes under /dev for example) but
>these things are still outside.
>
>But how can you merge really everything?
>----------------------------------------
>
>Things behave very differntly, for example a printer is a mostly
>write-only-device and normally you cant seek. A classical file is read- write-
>seek- and deleteable, a directory has listable contents. On a web-server there
>are lots of files you could address, but unlike to a local directory you often
>cant list its contents. And if we talk about programs, well. You can feed data
>to them and they produce data, usually with lots of side-effects.
>
>So you see all these things really havent _that_ much in common.
>But there is still one thing: They all handle data.
>
>The Approach: Protocols, Targets and Handlers
>---------------------------------------------
>
>If we take a construct like http://www.unununium.org, it is quite easy to
>  interpret: Use the method "http" to retrieve the standard file from the
>  server "www" inside the domain "unununium" inside the tld "org".
>I'd like the idea, that http is actually a HANDLER, i.e. a piece of software,
>  that retrieves data from a given TARGET.
>So I whould think of http as the handler name, "://" as a delimiter and the
>rest as a target specification, the handler should interpret.
>
>Especially I whould call this a rightsided (pointing left) handler.
>Thats a random nomination, since I always imagine the user to sit on the left
>side of a line and receive data there, so the standard one-directional
>data-flow is from right to the left (you'll understand this sentence later).
>
>+------+   data   +----------------+
>| user | <--------| http://TARGET  |
>+------+          +----------------+
>
>This picture might help.
>Now you might say: "Wait, wheres the webserver that sends data to http?"
>Well its outside our scope. http contects the webserver and gets data from it
>on its own, once we gave http the target, we cant interfere with it.
>But we _could_ indeed redirect the output of http to anywhere we want.
>("user" is a fictive point here, think of the screen or so)
>
>What is it good for?
>--------------------
>
>With this model in mind, we could construct every handler we want.
>Imagine, we have a handler mp3decode which is twosided, pointing left, i.e.
>it gets data from "the right" and outputs data to "the left".
>
>                        +-----------+
>decoded wave data <---- | mp3decode | <------ encoded mp3 data
>                        +-----------+
>
>Note that this handler doesnt accepts any targets at all, since it doesnt
>receive its data itself like http. You must give data to it to receive
>anything and you (or better, the system) have to handle its output.
>                        
>Now think of your new sound card.
>You could say, your sound card is a handler, but that whouldnt be quite right.
>You could have multiple soundcards, so the soundcard is a TARGET and the
>handler is an abstraction to adress them. So sound://0 whould adress the first
>soundcard, sound://1 the second, and by convention sound://default a system
>default.
>Okay, what kind of handler is sound://? It receives data, but doesnt send, so
>its leftsided (receiving from the right).
>
>Okay, now imagine, you want to play a wave-file from an url directly.
>Some mp3-players do, and there whould be some tricks with pipes, but now look
>at this notation:
>
>sound://0:mp3decode:http://www.some_domain.foo/some_mp3_file.mp3
>
>Nice isnt it?
>Imagine to be able to type these things at the console.
>
>What if sou want to copy a hard-disk-partition to another machine via
>ethernet?
>
>tcp://1234:disks://a2
>
>These are simple connections.
>Data flows from one point to another, maybe getting filtered.
>At the moment this model doesnt address things like listing directory contents
>or configuring the handler at runtime.
>That would go through ioctl()s I think, the rest is just a matter of notation.
>
>Think of what that means to a complete OS:
>You can really access everything from every application!
>I could type ssh://henning <at> someserver.bar/htmlfiles/foo.html into my favourite
>web-browser and it would display a file it got via ssh.
>
>The final point is that a "display program" such as a web browser or an image
>viewer should not be limited to a set of protocols choosen at program time.
>It makes sense to limit them to a content-type indeed (how should an
>    image-viewer display a wave-file?). But it should be your choice how you
>get your data.
>
>Henning Hasemann <hhasemann [at] web [dot] de>
>
>
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Uuu-devel mailing list
>Uuu-devel <at> unununium.org
>http://unununium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uuu-devel
>  
>
Elmo Mäntynen | 3 Jan 00:07 2006
Picon

Re: UI discussion (Was: Re: Uuu-devel Digest, Vol 26, Issue 1)

There're pages (http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/development/
http://www.redcedar.com/owlQandA.html ) discussing a very cheap
eye-tracker design, which apparently isn't sold anywhere, so if someone
is interested, a usable prototype could be done by directions from
dgrover at redcedar dot com, I don't know if ready made ones are
available. This paper I found by googling seems interesting too:
http://act-r.psy.cmu.edu/papers/302/dds_jra_2000_a.pdf
It talks about developements toward "intelligent gaze-added interfaces".
Still waiting for the revolution of brain-computer interfaces...

If that's too far reaching for your taste, let me re-introduce (someone
hinted this list a while ago, grabbed my attention at least) you the to
the python programmable wm:
http://pywm.sourceforge.net/. It's in the process of rewriting, and I
don't know if will test it before some indication of readyness (last
update 8/3/2005), but it's supposed to be usable, so if you want to test
your ideas, that's a great framework for that. Even though Lua(Ion uses
it) isn't hard to learn, I'd personally prefer the pywm consept. Btw,
here's a piece of the introduction text for pywm: "On the fringes are
'rodentophobic' window managers like Matchbox, RatPoison, Ion etc. One
thinks of certain people (who will go nameless) who take pride in still
using ASCII dumb terminals." Don't know if the 'rodentophobic' aspect
applies to Ion anymore, but I do like the sound if this remark, also
from the same page: "I find myself often switching from mouse/keyboard
to straight keyboard, so PyWM is there for me all the way." The original
authors python page has also some very cool things like an ecrypted
filesystem with plausible deniability features, a lib to implement
filesystems in pure python, python interface to freenet and I2P etc. A
visit is a must=)

Now I really have to go to sleep. More tommorow...

Elmo

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elmo Mäntynen wrote:

>As it should be evident from the response, there isn't anything close to
>a full consensus about the UI beyond the mensioned "what it isn't  going
>to be". Why not start a discussion about that that, or more precisely,
>continue this already started thread=). As a start, I'd suggest
>considering eye-tracking a possible input method, as I discussed in a
>mail to this list a while ago. It's a realistic option, not easy but
>defenetely in our reach. It would draw attention at least, and even
>bring some usefullness, which Uuu doesn't have. You should read through
>the dasher's(deb-package dasher, interesting input method using the
>mouse) webpage: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ (doesn't seem
>to work at the moment). Also, http://iki.fi/tuomov/vis/ (same author as
>Ion), would be a good read, as it addresses a major problem with current
>"top-notch" gui-program designs.
>
>
>
>Richard Fillion wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Use the 'ion' window manager for X11, and you'll have an idea of an 
>>interface that we found sucked less.
>>
>>Richard Fillion
>>rfillion <at> cs.und.edu
>>    
>>
Fortes Marcelo | 3 Jan 00:17 2006
Picon

Usefull

Greetings !!! Happy new year friends!

 

I have fallowed this project with some enthusiasm. I have discussed some concepts with a long time friend that have some inovative ideas and some related concepts. As a result we sit and put in a paper a set of relevant topics to define a new model computer system originally based on Unununium Concepts. That system shares lots of fundamental concepts with Unununium, and i would like to know as far it are really similar and if both can bound in a unique enfort, since liken Phill and otheres explained more and opened our eyes to a entire new wonderfull world.

 

The main goal, is to develop a entire new system to use personal computers, that subverts many concepts of a operating system, in fact, we dont like to refer it as an operating system, instead we prefer to name it as an “Interactive Universe” a colection of structured data objects running toghether.

 

First of all a set of  similarities:

 

-NoKernel infrastructure:

A low level basis can be used to stabilish a suport to “Interactive Universe” that is just one existential process line System made of a collection of interchangeable objects.

The low level was named as an meta-system; The meta-system initially was thought as a virtual machine similar to JavaVM that wich “Interactive Universe” would be implemented. In fact, Java was the first architecture to come into our minds when think in a Universe of objects, but shortly we come to a conclusion that Java was not the best technology to implement that.

 

-New Application Model:

With a collection of objects working toghther in the Universe its possible to achieve one of goals that is proposed for Unununium too,  that is a concept of more Interconnection ‘no applications tradicional concept’ at least as we know as applications concept, providing a facility to share objects to built applicatibilities, as text editors etc...

 

-No File System/Orthogonal Persistence:

Orthogonal persistence is a crucial point and needs to be carefull projected

The subversion of files concepts turns users free of files ideas althoght at least a minimalist format allocate metasystem is required. The classes code  dont need have a file format allocation. The end user just needs care about “information”. No longer a necessity to save files the orthogonal persistence must be smart to “save” data without user intervention. No name spaces required.

 

-Python:

Python was choose of a elegant and high level language and some Uuu induction. basis (Python is not really yet the better ideal language to achieve the some goals, some new concepts, we supose, but it could be used represent the model as well).

In our model objects are concourrent with a assinchronous message facility, if a method called from one object to other it can answer immediately or not. 

However Python it a language being used to proof and test the model is not our ideal and we are get more confiance on it since we are still getting fun playing with they funny data types. :-)

 

Some set of  diferences:

 

Unununium uses Linux as a basis to it development.

I sugested to implement the extended Python or other language  that can provide us assynchronous councorrence on top of an modifiend L4 layer.

 

-Applications:

Unununium wants to provide POSIX applications compliance Ambiente instead dont, the idea is to  completely break old paradigms and turn computer use radically easy so putting applications from other system could break the idea of the system. (To Hell with emacs and bash ;-D)

 

-User interface:

o:p>

A point to strong discussion, is a user interface. Since my last post i asked for and sugested a drawboard of GUI on and  what it could be i have imaginated something diferent from a Window Mananger, even things like ION. And tryied to imagine a “natural ambient”

           

Is hard to simply “break” the idea of hunting or s earching a hidden file or configuration window/panel becouse we are in front of a device with very limited  dimensions that are a screen! So the solution is to bring things more closer to user as possible in a access format.

 

Well is more easy to a human being to understand things that your conscince is more confortable, bring new abstractions to a mind can be especially hard to a novice or a person that simply have fear to use a personal computer to understand it.

 

Unununium designers dont like the abstraction of a “emulation of a desk with piles of papers“ and even others do a criticism of GUI emulates tangible objects as for exemple Word mimics a paper inside a windows.

 

We by other hand  think that to bring the most realist enviroinment to the user is the ideal model with tangible photorealist visual aspect.

ONT>

 

Our first idea was to have a a simplistic set of bitmaps with real world rooms appearence where user can choose a “door” bitmap to execute or configure something a “Paper Box” to search by “informations” where informations are grouped by genre classified by their class definition so i have a set of text informations grouped and a set of spread sheets grouped on each genre where at first time the user have not to care about if it is a spreadsheet or text document information.

The briefing room in a game called “medal of honour allied assault” give us a idea that how it could be.

 

The secound idea is based in a ambient too.

The idea is to design an 3D ambient as a ample room with  a very clean design i can imagine it as white room so bright and clean that i cant divise line between floor and wall and just a blue transparent Box in the floor that user can use mouse pointer and it  open all this sides showing inside list of “applications”, “information search”, “System options” etc...

 

There are other ideas too but more closer with a traditional window mananger with good ideas.

 

More to talk about:

T>

 

-Applications appearence:

A good idea if you want break the old paradgm of application is dont have the same appearence of a windowed graphic system. So, no menus, no toolbars no scrollbars no button no windows, no control buttons to miniminize no tittle bar. If a user wants to write a letter in a word processor the paper page comes and fills all screem the user just writes in the paper all controls can be accessed by a contextual sensitive rectangle that can appear s with a right click in a selected paragraph, line, word, page border wheterver.

 

-Meta System basic definition:

The meta system is composed of minimalist L4 implementation plus a orthogonal persistence and Python interpreter/garbagecollector facility.

Where L4 impl ementation can be more reduced eliminating or simply modifing some  logical primitives that are not part of a nonkernel system concept for exemple “adress spaces”, “threads”, “thread schedulle”  and “ipc”

 

-Devices definitions

Hardware devices could be represented as a set objects compounded of a Domains relations to be more transparent device drives construcition and other reasons that would be explained late. One exemple of the domain representation:

 

:Hardware/Printers/printerdevice1

:Hardware/Printers/printerdevice1

:Hardware/communications/modem1

:Hardware/communications/modem2

:Hardware/communications/USB/usbport1

:Hardware/communications/USB/usbport2

:Hardware/communications/USB/usbport3

:Hardware/ communications/USB/usbport4

 

So i have explained the “Ambient” system the better a could with less low level as possible to everybody can understand and discuss about, maybe it becomes a great partnership between us.

 

Thank you to much

Marcelo Fortes

and

Reisidalt Coulto.

 

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Tomasz Wójtowicz | 4 Jan 01:12 2006
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Picon

Another leap second

Hello everybody,

I heard on TV, that there was another leap second added to UTC. It was added
on Jan 01, 2006 round 1 a.m. my local (central european) time. Hope you are
aware of that and you recalibrated UUU's clock.

BTW. Where UUU holds current TAI-to-UTC offset? In a configuration file?

Greetings,
Tomasz Wójtowicz
Phil Frost | 4 Jan 01:21 2006

Re: Another leap second

On Wed, Jan 04, 2006 at 01:12:34AM +0100, Tomasz W?jtowicz wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I heard on TV, that there was another leap second added to UTC. It was added
> on Jan 01, 2006 round 1 a.m. my local (central european) time. Hope you are
> aware of that and you recalibrated UUU's clock.
> 
> BTW. Where UUU holds current TAI-to-UTC offset? In a configuration file?
> 
> Greetings,
> Tomasz W?jtowicz

Good thinking. We can now all party a second earlier: next uuutime bit
gain is at Mon Dec 1 19:29:03 2008. The UTC-TAI offset is stuck rather
unelegantly at the top of uuutime.py of the website.

Gmane