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Thomas M. Farrelly | 11 Mar 2001 15:07
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Choosing the language for the job.

hi,

<sarcasm>
Thanks for not answering my last quetion. However many references made nice contribution to trashcan.
TUNES must be like at the top of the scientific buerachracy. ConGratulations :)
</sarcasm>

<however>
I didn't reall expect an answere. It was more rethorical,  think about this for a second. I got one answere
though - empty tape - nice one, but is it a quine? Try a TM program that starts with an empty tape, but where the
automaton is not empty. That's more like the quines I've seen - they do not require input.
</however>

Why I really send this, is to get some view points on which language I should use to write a fast, portable
interpreter. I think I have asked this question before. There has definantly been discussion on language
here. Requirements are:

            - compiles
            - dynamic runtime linking / evaluate function / similar
            - portable
            - fast

The part about runtime linking doesn't need to be built in, but there should be some module for it somewhere.
Also, it would be nice if there was a multi prossessor support module as well.

My obvious choice is C, but we all hate that. I wonder particularly wheter there are compiled dialects of
lisp. One language C-- seems particularly interesting, as my program is an implementation of an abstract
structure and thus do not need api's, but I have problems finding compilers for it. I do not need graphics,
as I'll be using dhtml for that.
(Continue reading)

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Alan Grimes | 15 Mar 2001 04:34
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Stuff that can be worked on...

While the shape and function of the Tunes System is yet unclear, we can,
today, get working on a project that will make ALL operating system R&D
a hell of a lot easier for everyone! 

The idea is like Flux Oskit, but smaller, simpler, and user friendly!

I'll be getting a listserv on-line in a few months and would welcome all
assistance. 

(maybe I could be granted moderatorship of the Unios list? )

--

-- 
People who work on computers use linux; People who work on life use
Macintosh =)
http://users.erols.com/alangrimes/  <my website.
Any usage of this e-mail account is subject to the terms and conditions
specified on my website.
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Pat Wendorf | 15 Mar 2001 06:31

Re: [Unios] Stuff that can be worked on...

UniOS is an unmoderated list Alan, what exactly do you need?

- Pat

Alan Grimes wrote:
> 
> While the shape and function of the Tunes System is yet unclear, we can,
> today, get working on a project that will make ALL operating system R&D
> a hell of a lot easier for everyone!
> 
> The idea is like Flux Oskit, but smaller, simpler, and user friendly!
> 
> I'll be getting a listserv on-line in a few months and would welcome all
> assistance.
> 
> (maybe I could be granted moderatorship of the Unios list? )
> 
> --
> People who work on computers use linux; People who work on life use
> Macintosh =)
> http://users.erols.com/alangrimes/  <my website.
> Any usage of this e-mail account is subject to the terms and conditions
> specified on my website.

--

-- 

Pat Wendorf
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RE01 Rice Brian T. EM2 | 15 Mar 2001 07:34
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A week from today, Arrows

Hello all,
I've been away from the net and far too busy with work these last 6 weeks.
Anyway, I have been working extensively on the arrows-in-squeak code and
will have a really useful system for you that is 50% of what you would
expect of an alpha programming language interpreter release. The most
important parts are being finalized right now and demonstrate nearly
everything I've mentioned on this list and in the philosophy paper. The one
thing that still will be unfinished in a week is the equational laziness of
evaluation being available, which I must get the p
rolog-in-squeak application to help in working out the details quickly.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to keep you up to date on this. What I
will be releasing will be changesets, which will show the development
process I went through as well as allowing you to load in an initialized
arrow world into a squeak image. I will also release a squeak project and an
example image with the code loaded in for those who are unfamiliar with
squeak apps to get familiar with the interesting aspects of the code and its
potnetial usage quickly.

In case you are wondering, I am going to use a lot of the architectural
patterns in the arrows code in a slate system whenever I am satisfied with
my own plans for it.

Also, I have a 3 week vacation for devoting to my coding and improvement of
my writings, which are far overdue to be updated to my current state of
knowledge and research. Of course, they also need to be more clear, and I
will pay close attention to that.

Believe it when you see it, of course. :)
But I will make sure you see it.
~
(Continue reading)

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Pietro Braione | 15 Mar 2001 11:21
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hello, may I help you?

Hello to everyone. I have been lurking on this
ML for awhile, and I have found all your messages
really intriguing, as all the project is. I would
like to help in some way, but as the work is 
currently focussing on theoretical issues, on which
I think I cannot be of any help until I have
at least built a stronger ground on algebra and
categories, I would like to propose myself 
as a volunteer for... well, almost anything else
can help. In a word, I am here, if I can do
something give me a ring. 
On the other hand, I would like some advice on
what can I start to read to gain the background
of above, sayed that as a computer engineer
my theoretical foundation are somehow limited  
direction, surely not even comparable to that
of a mathematician - although I am already
working to reduce the gap a little bit. I know some 
logic, i.e. first order mathematic logic, Godel 
theorem, and I am studying modal and fuzzy logic
and some cathegory theory. Also some on (un)com-
putability (Rice and theorem and Kleene fixpoint)
but fundamentally nothing else, notably nothing on 
lambda calculus, and nothing even resembling re-
flection, apart from Godel theorem. I am starting
a PhD at Politecnico di Milano and I would like to
push my research towards something concerning
reflection, but I need to better understand what 
computational reflection is and implies before 
trying to do that.
(Continue reading)

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Jecel Assumpcao Jr | 19 Mar 2001 23:31
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[offtopic] foundations of math

I just thought that some people around here might enjoy this talk about 
randomness in the foundations of mathematics:

   http://www.cs.umaine.edu/~chaitin/cmu.html

This was mentioned on Slashdot.
-- Jecel
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Brian Rice | 22 Mar 2001 06:02

Promised Arrows Code

Well, I just got back a few hours ago, and I'll at least put out the 
current changeset, although it's got some serious bugs at the moment 
due to some architecture shifts that haven't been completed. Needless 
to say, it's well documented (IMO), so informative on its own.

Here's where the code is: http://www.tunes.org/~water/ArrowLogic.13.cs

For those unfamiliar with Squeak, it's at http://www.squeak.org for 
every platform commonly known. Installation instructions are the same 
as for every changeset: use the desktop menu to open a file list. 
Then navigate to the changeset file and right-click to select "file 
in". (For this current release, it is VERY IMPORTANT to note that you 
will see a progress bar which will stop at the end. When it stops, 
hit "ALT-PERIOD" ("CMD-PERIOD" on the mac) to halt the class 
initialization process that it stops on.)Then open a code browser to 
look through things. Explore everything you see in all the menus and 
hit every interesting button. That is the Smalltalk Way. :)

This is very much not the state of code I wanted to present, but it 
will take a little time for me to figure out where the problems are 
coming from. Then I will make a proper release.

Thanks,
~
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Brian Rice | 23 Mar 2001 10:48

Proper Arrow code release

As promised, I fixed up the problems with the last set of code. 
First, the halting when you load the code initially has been fixed, 
and as well, I discovered that I hadn't handled the Mac to Unix text 
formatting conversion properly, and fixed that as well. Some other 
internal changes were made that are minor.

As of now, I'll be sending out code in this pre-packaged format which 
most people should find very simple to deal with.

I will put together all of my arrow code releases into this directory:
http://www.tunes.org/~water/arrow until arrow.cx is back up and 
running. (Or maybe arrow.tunes.org).

Within that directory, you have two options. First, the most 
compatible option among Squeak variants is to take some 2.X version 
of Squeak (2.9 or later if you don't have Weak collections filed 
in.), and file in http://www.tunes.org/~water/ArrowLogic.13.cs and 
then load as a file http://www.tunes.org/~water/ArrowTests.text . The 
latter is not used by Squeak itself; I merely used it to test some of 
my classes and keep track of developments.

If you are new to Smalltalk or Squeak, then this latter approach will 
help out, although it requires you to get the newest version of 
Squeak. http://www.tunes.org/~water/Arrows.pr is a Squeak Project. 
When you get a Squeak 3.1 installation (which I will explain how to 
do), you can load this project from the file using the desktop menu 
directly. Versions earlier than 3.1 do not handle projects correctly, 
and so regrettably this means you have to get the latest Squeak. 
(However, I believe that 3.1 is significantly better than earlier 
versions for ease of use and clarity.) At any rate, to get 3.1,
(Continue reading)

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Brian Rice | 23 Mar 2001 18:13

Proper Arrow code release

As promised, I fixed up the problems with the last set of code. 
First, the halting when you load the code initially has been fixed, 
and as well, I discovered that I hadn't handled the Mac to Unix text 
formatting conversion properly, and fixed that as well. Some other 
internal changes were made that are minor.

As of now, I'll be sending out code in this pre-packaged format which 
most people should find very simple to deal with.

I will put together all of my arrow code releases into this directory:
http://www.tunes.org/~water/arrow until arrow.cx is back up and 
running. (Or maybe arrow.tunes.org).

Within that directory, you have two options. First, the most 
compatible option among Squeak variants is to take some 2.X version 
of Squeak (2.9 or later if you don't have Weak collections filed 
in.), and file in http://www.tunes.org/~water/arrow/ArrowLogic.13.cs 
and then load as a file 
http://www.tunes.org/~water/arrow/ArrowTests.text . The latter is not 
used by Squeak itself; I merely used it to test some of my classes 
and keep track of developments.

If you are new to Smalltalk or Squeak, then this latter approach will 
help out, although it requires you to get the newest version of 
Squeak. http://www.tunes.org/~water/arrow/Arrows.pr is a Squeak 
Project. When you get a Squeak 3.1 installation (which I will explain 
how to do), you can load this project from the file using the desktop 
menu directly. Versions earlier than 3.1 do not handle projects 
correctly, and so regrettably this means you have to get the latest 
Squeak. (However, I believe that 3.1 is significantly better than
(Continue reading)

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Brian Rice | 23 Mar 2001 18:20

The previous post has URL fixes

I'm batting 1 for 3 today on formatting my mail properly. :P

Thanks for your patience,
~
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Gmane