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softorchestra | 1 Oct 02:36
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Re: Be careful for what you wish for...


--- In solarisx86 <at> yahoogroups.com, Matthias Pfützner <Matthias@...>
wrote:
>
> Alan,
>
> where are you these days? I at least do miss you at Sun...

Nowhere yet, took some time off and started to build a log home. I have
most of the pieces put together and hope to get my logs and timber
shipped out west so I can finish it. I started looking for work a bit
ago, but haven't found anything yet.

I kinda miss Sun also, certainly enjoyed my time there, and I don't
think anyone would say that I didn't shake the company from the bottom
up to the top...:-/

> And back to you're question:
>
> The fact, that Adobe no longer upgrades Acroread for Sparc was a
decision they
> made, they simply don't want to have to do to many QA cycles. And
therefore
> they "switched" the Solaris'es. If someone could convince them, that
other
> OSes are no longer worth a QA, they might revert that, and add
Solaris/Sparc
> instead of that other "dead" OS...

Actually, I can't blame them one iota. Given the support that Sun is
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Patch Nag | 1 Oct 03:35

New Solaris Patches available at riddleware.com 20090930

125534-12    Gnome 2.6.0_x86: Trusted Extension Runtime Patch

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softorchestra | 1 Oct 04:27
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Re: What I'd like to see done with Solaris x64 by Oracle if they keep it..

--- In solarisx86 <at> yahoogroups.com, "pcsol1996" <rrm_1996@...> wrote:
> 1) Go back to the old Solaris model of charging (a reasonable 
> price) for the OS and making the patches free.

Unfortunately I think it's too late for that, the curve is still headed to open source and Sun was late to the party.

I believe it will come back around one day, but Sun is not in a position to lead that pack, they need to follow,
and they need to follow better than they have in the past. That is a part of Sun's problem, they move
slow...open source moves fast.

And let's face it, Solaris is really only open in the sense of the Clinton definition. Therein lies the problem.

> 2) Be conservative with Solaris, OpenSolaris is hardly ready to
> become Solaris 11.

I think it's also too late to change that. Sun hasn't had a new revenue release in how many years? This is their
problem, not the customer's...Sun should have been coming out with releases over the past 4 years, but
it's taken them this long to change their model. There is also so much technology added into the current
release, if the customers really want to see Sun survive, I say it's *THEM* that need to change. It is the
customer that needs to start using the latest bits, start getting comfortable with IPS, zfs, crossbow,
dtrace, et al, and yes I realize some of that is available on S10, but Sun needs to quite doing updates to S10,
IMO. The back porting gets more and more difficult and there is just too much in the new bits.

> Keep OpenSolaris around but give up the notion that OpenSolaris
> is going to win Linux people.  Heck many of the Linux people I
> know are going to Mac's for their laptops/desktops.

That part is sensible, giving up the notion that they can win over the Linux crowd. Although I won't say that
all of the Linux crowd dislikes Solaris, the bulk of them do. The rest will often use it in their job, and
appreciate it for it's goodness, but those folks are in the minority of the Linux community, IMO. When I
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Dave Johnson | 1 Oct 05:51

Re: Re: What I'd like to see done with Solaris x64 by Oracle if they keep it..

In technology, you follow and you die. Lead.

I'm with pcsol1996 on all 3 points.

softorchestra wrote:
>  
> 
> --- In solarisx86 <at> yahoogroups.com <mailto:solarisx86%40yahoogroups.com>, 
> "pcsol1996" <rrm_1996@...> wrote:
>  > 1) Go back to the old Solaris model of charging (a reasonable
>  > price) for the OS and making the patches free.
> 
> Unfortunately I think it's too late for that, the curve is still headed 
> to open source and Sun was late to the party.
> 
> I believe it will come back around one day, but Sun is not in a position 
> to lead that pack, they need to follow, and they need to follow better 
> than they have in the past. That is a part of Sun's problem, they move 
> slow...open source moves fast.
> 
> And let's face it, Solaris is really only open in the sense of the 
> Clinton definition. Therein lies the problem.
> 
>  > 2) Be conservative with Solaris, OpenSolaris is hardly ready to
>  > become Solaris 11.
> 
> I think it's also too late to change that. Sun hasn't had a new revenue 
> release in how many years? This is their problem, not the 
> customer's...Sun should have been coming out with releases over the past 
> 4 years, but it's taken them this long to change their model. There is
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softorchestra | 1 Oct 07:53
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Re: MEDIA: Ellison: Sunacle is an IBM killer

--- In solarisx86 <at> yahoogroups.com, John D Groenveld <jdg117@...> wrote:
> New Education Essentials price list is out just in case Peter Ryan
> and company's  sales critter for your corner of the market didn't
> ping you:
> <URL:http://www.sun.com/solutions/landing/industry/education/edu_essentials.jsp>
> 
> John
> groenveld@...
>

Thanks, nope...I didn't get ping'd...did you? Fess up, did you actually get ping'd or did you just stumble
across it on the web site?

Wouldn't you expect marketing to contact you before the sales folks?

I don't know, how does that stuff work anyway...???

The best I've been able to figure out is that Marketing, Sales, and Support are kinda like those three monkeys...*lol*


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Apostolos Syropoulos | 1 Oct 11:11
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Re: Re: What I'd like to see done with Solaris x64 by Oracle if they keep it..


Dave Johnson: wrote
  > In technology, you follow and you die. Lead.
>
>I'm with pcsol1996 on all 3 points.

 
In which way you lead? Having a closed source
OS that is used by a handful of people is almost
useless. ZFS became popular because it is an
OpenSource project and so it is available under
OpenBSD and Linux (through FUSE) and
it will become the da facto file system of MacOS. 
If it were a close source thing, no one would care about 
it! "Protectionism" is not the way to go.

A.S.

----------------------
Apostolos Syropoulos
Xanthi, Greece   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Dave Johnson | 1 Oct 15:43

Re: Re: What I'd like to see done with Solaris x64 by Oracle if they keep it..

I was just responding to the (Sun)" needs to follow" statement.

ZFS? Oh, so you think giving it away to Apple was the
best way to stay in business? Show me the math on that.

Apostolos Syropoulos wrote:
>  
> 
> 
> Dave Johnson: wrote
>  > In technology, you follow and you die. Lead.
>  >
>  >I'm with pcsol1996 on all 3 points.
> 
> In which way you lead? Having a closed source
> OS that is used by a handful of people is almost
> useless. ZFS became popular because it is an
> OpenSource project and so it is available under
> OpenBSD and Linux (through FUSE) and
> it will become the da facto file system of MacOS.
> If it were a close source thing, no one would care about
> it! "Protectionism" is not the way to go.
> 

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pcsol1996 | 1 Oct 16:14
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Re: What I'd like to see done with Solaris x64 by Oracle if they keep it..

--- In solarisx86 <at> yahoogroups.com, Dave Johnson <jsqurd@...> wrote:
>
> I was just responding to the (Sun)" needs to follow" statement.
> 
> ZFS? Oh, so you think giving it away to Apple was the
> best way to stay in business? Show me the math on that.
> 
I have been saying that since ZFS was released.  As John G. is fond of saying.."I am no MBA", but paying your
people a lot of money to develop something that you then just turnaround and give to your competition makes
no sense if you are interested in making money.

softorchestra said Open Source is all the rage..last time I looked Windows dominates and continues to
grow.  Lack of Open Source sure hasn't hurt it.

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Apostolos Syropoulos | 1 Oct 16:43
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Re: Re: What I'd like to see done with Solaris x64 by Oracle if they keep it..

>>
>> I was just responding to the (Sun)" needs to follow" statement.
>> 
>> ZFS? Oh, so you think giving it away to Apple was the
> >best way to stay in business? Show me the math on that.
> >

First of all you make Apple depend of your product and then you
ask them to pay for each machine they sell. PDF is a similar thing
and when Microsoft decided to include to Word the capability
to produce PDF files, then Adobe asked them to pay money for
each copy of Office they would sell.  Then you make ZFS industry's
de facto standard and make money from all sorts of things including
specs etc. 

> I have been saying that since ZFS was released. As John G. is fond of
saying..
>"I am no MBA", but paying your people a lot of money to develop
something 
> that you then just turnaround and give to your competition
makes no sense if 
> you are interested in making money.

Yes but you forget something: people are already developing ext4 and unless
you do not make others use and depend on your file system, soon ZFS will
be something no one will be talking any more...

>softorchestra said Open Source is all the rage..last time I looked
Windows dominates 
>and continues to grow. Lack of Open Source sure
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Matthias Pfützner | 1 Oct 16:49
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Re: Re: What I'd like to see done with Solaris x64 by Oracle if they keep it..

You (pcsol1996) write:
> --- In solarisx86 <at> yahoogroups.com, Dave Johnson <jsqurd@...> wrote:
> >
> > I was just responding to the (Sun)" needs to follow" statement.
> > 
> > ZFS? Oh, so you think giving it away to Apple was the
> > best way to stay in business? Show me the math on that.
> > 
> I have been saying that since ZFS was released.  As John G. is fond of saying.."I am no MBA", but paying your
people a lot of money to develop something that you then just turnaround and give to your competition makes
no sense if you are interested in making money.
> 
> softorchestra said Open Source is all the rage..last time I looked Windows dominates and continues to
grow.  Lack of Open Source sure hasn't hurt it.

Let's turn the argument around:

If you are NOT a monopolist, how can you ensure, that your IP will grow in
acceptance?

Make it available to all, who want to use it, and capitalize on the "first in
innovation" and "services for your IP". Even OpenSource is NOT bug free, so
support contracts can still be sold!

        Matthias
--

-- 
Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER      | Das Schöne ist alles eine
Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:Matthias <at> Pfuetzner.DE | Illusion.
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Germany      | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | Antje Pfützner
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Gmane