Re: color of window border

>>>>> "ron" == ron minnich <rminnich <at> lanl.gov> writes:
ron> looking at that beautiful rio code, seems like it ought to be
ron> easy. And the true fun is, it is so easy to muck around with rio
ron> and then test it in a rio window ... compare that to trying to
ron> tweak ANYTHING in an X desktop manager.
ron> 
ron> ron

You mean the pain and torment of flipping back to the console to type
"startx -- :2" and test X without losing your current window state, as
compared to the ease and simplicity of doing right button down, select
new, sweep open new window, and typing "rio" ?

--Rob

Re: color of window border

If you were really developing a rio tweak you would have the necessary command for starting rio in Acme somewhere

something like window rc -c rio

so your analogy should be

"You mean the pain and torment of middle click compared to the ease and simplicity of typing ctrl-alt-f7
startx --:2 enter"

add into that the new rio will run next to your editor

sorry, you lose

Re: color of window border

yeah, i have this file [good god no] $home/lib/windows which gets run when
rio starts and i have all my windows running what i want, where i want it.

but i'm sure it's far to complex :-P

Re: Re: NAT

There's an inferno firewall.  Ehg and ynl did a NAT but I don't know
what the status of it is.

> sometime back there was a mail that said NAT and firewall code will be
> integrated to Plan 9 kernel. i was wondering whether it is really a good
> idea to put NAT/firewall code into the OS.

no it isn't.  bugs will kill you dead.

if it's in user mode the problem can be contained and a lot easier to
code/run/test.  no root on plan 9 :)

Re: Multi-stack mail problem.

Odd, I remember a PPP implementor telling me years ago that he'd had
to implement ASN.1 as part of a from-scratch PPP implementation, yet I
see no reference to ASN.1 in the Plan 9 PP*P* code and only this
reference in the PPP RFCs (in the PPP CHAP RFC):

      The Name field is one or more octets representing the
      identification of the system transmitting the packet.  There are
      no limitations on the content of this field.  For example, it MAY
      contain ASCII character strings or globally unique identifiers in
      ASN.1 syntax.  The Name should not be NUL or CR/LF terminated.
      The size is determined from the Length field.

Maybe the people he was working for decided to use ASN.1 here for some
perverse reason.

Nevertheless, PPP is the sendmail of serial line framing protocols.

Re: Multi-stack mail problem.

>>Odd, I remember a PPP implementor telling me years ago that he'd had
>>to implement ASN.1 as part of a from-scratch PPP implementation, yet I

i'm sure someone has or will find a use for it somewhere.
if they'd done it today it would use XML for negotiation.

Re: color of window border

i suspect he was talking about also modifying the CODE of an X11
window manager.  flipping is right.

From: Rob Ristroph <rgr <at> sdf.lonestar.org>
Subject: Re: [9fans] color of window border
Date: 2003-09-30 23:45:22 GMT

>>>>> "ron" == ron minnich <rminnich <at> lanl.gov> writes:
ron> looking at that beautiful rio code, seems like it ought to be
ron> easy. And the true fun is, it is so easy to muck around with rio
ron> and then test it in a rio window ... compare that to trying to
ron> tweak ANYTHING in an X desktop manager.
ron> 
ron> ron

You mean the pain and torment of flipping back to the console to type
"startx -- :2" and test X without losing your current window state, as
compared to the ease and simplicity of doing right button down, select
new, sweep open new window, and typing "rio" ?

--Rob

Re: color of window border

> should there be bordered windows at all?

i really meant `borders' in the larger sense,
not (just) lines drawn round them.  it seems
odd to me that there is significant hardware
available casually now but on XP MacOSX Redhat
it's all the same old thing.  different twiddles,
perhaps (though often not even that), but so
far of the environments i've seen only acme
has really stood out.

is that it, then?

Re: color of window border

On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:40:21AM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > should there be bordered windows at all?
> 
> i really meant `borders' in the larger sense,
> not (just) lines drawn round them.  it seems
> odd to me that there is significant hardware
> available casually now but on XP MacOSX Redhat
> it's all the same old thing.  different twiddles,
> perhaps (though often not even that), but so
> far of the environments i've seen only acme
> has really stood out.
> 
> is that it, then?

i wrote a short rant on this in response to Sun's
announcement of there mad hatter desktop. i adore
acme for coding. whenever i go back to anything
else, it always feels clunky and frustrating.

--

-- 
Christopher Nielsen
"They who can give up essential liberty for temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin

Re: color of window border

> You mean the pain and torment of flipping back to the console to type
> "startx -- :2" and test X without losing your current window state, as
> compared to the ease and simplicity of doing right button down, select
> new, sweep open new window, and typing "rio" ?
> 
> --Rob

it's more like this (because i've done it):

	- finding what to edit in X's source 	-- 1 hour (500mb source!)

	- editing a small change 			-- 5 minutes

repeat:
	- rethinking whether you did the right thing while it compiles
	-- 5 minutes

	- waiting for the rest of the compile to finish 
								-- 1 hour (varies)

	- goto repeat unless you're happy 	-- 0 minutes

	- pressing ctlr+alt+Fx 			-- 0 minutes

	- pressing ctlr+alt+Fx a few more times because you can't find
	where your last session where 		-- 0 minutes

	- cursing and typing your username at the login: window 
								-- 1 minute