Aurélien Larcher | 24 Feb 21:17 2015
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Terminology 0.8.0 patches

Hi,
Just a note about terminology, Enlightenment's (best) terminal application.

FYI, terminology's developer Boris Faure just committed a set of patches [1] against 0.8.0 to fix several bugs on Solaris/Illumos: the next release 0.8.1 will thus be functional on OpenIndiana without resorting to patches in oi-userland.

I set up access to a build zone with X11 forward on my workstation to allow developers to port and to test their fixes.
Lack of access to machines running OI discourage developers to make their application ported to Illumos.
Do you think something can be done about it ?
Best,

Aurelien

PS: I am off for the week but will fix the stalled pull requests in oi-userland when I am back.
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Nikola M | 23 Feb 21:12 2015
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Re: Updating Hipster and GUI log-in breakage with mounted ZFS datasets

On 02/18/15 03:06 PM, Alexander Pyhalov wrote:
> On 02/18/2015 16:35, Nikola M wrote:
>> Maybe I could toss somewhere other GNOME settings or insights of that
>> account?
>
> I'd suggest to start from making a backup of your settings, then 
> clearing gnome auto-start and panel applets 
> (~/.gconf/apps/panel/applets/).

Oh and I sent previous message too early:

Deleting everything under ~/.gconf/apps/panel/applets/ had no affect on 
freezing X and  VTs when logging with account I regularly used before 
update to 20141010.

But I managed to have nwam-manager GUI giving core dump and restarting X 
on another account, on 20141010, while logging in normally on another..

It could be interesting to put an archive of that account contents. 
Where could be suitable place to paste larger (ZIP) files?
Nikola M | 23 Feb 21:03 2015
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Re: Updating Hipster and GUI log-in breakage with mounted ZFS datasets


On 02/18/15 03:06 PM, Alexander Pyhalov wrote:
> On 02/18/2015 16:35, Nikola M wrote:
>> .xsession-errors  http://pastebin.com/gVDNjGHK
>> .xsession-errors.old  http://pastebin.com/9vtp3wT9
>
> What about Xorg.log ?
Sorry for taking it too long:
http://pastebin.com/Vp322Xr8

>
>> How would you for example react if your updated packages in Hipster,
>> never end up in /release ?
>> And it is required that further development starts from /release
>> onwards, not other way around?
>
> What is /release ?
What I think should be goal of OI.
Production-ready release that could be supported with updates for 
considerable time.

>> If we have no power to have any release, what we are actually doing 
>> here?
>> If SOME release (updatable from /dev) is not the goal in at least one
>> moment, where it is heading?
>
>> Maybe I could toss somewhere other GNOME settings or insights of that
>> account?
>
> I'd suggest to start from making a backup of your settings, then 
> clearing gnome auto-start and panel applets 
> (~/.gconf/apps/panel/applets/).
>
Aurélien Larcher | 19 Feb 00:41 2015
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NOIP client for OI

Hi,
just FYI I just installed the client from this github repo:

https://github.com/jamesstout/no-ip

and surprisingly it works pretty well !

Best,

Aurelien

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Nikola M | 18 Feb 14:35 2015
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Re: Updating Hipster and GUI log-in breakage with mounted ZFS datasets


On 02/18/15 12:54 PM, Alexander Pyhalov wrote:

>
>>> 2) As for your system freezing after logging in - it's more 
>>> interesting.
>>> Could you get you ~/.xsession-erros log ?
> ...
>
> I've asked several questions, you started this bullshit. OK, let's 
> instead of solving your problem, discuss this.... I don't like 
> discussing similar topics, but ...

.xsession-errors  http://pastebin.com/gVDNjGHK
.xsession-errors.old  http://pastebin.com/9vtp3wT9

I also suspect some hardware malfunction (but not expressing like this 
on every log in),
I also did weird things trying to launch gnome-session you requested,
and I did it running as other user, running, screen, then ssh -l user -X 
localhost , then gnome-session, so beware of maybe weird things inside.
>
>> Things do not get tested before releases, releases are not being
>> discussed , made and polished for updates, priorities have not being 
>> set,
>> all we actually have is "updating packages" without idea where OI is
>> heading and why and who actually needs a system that does have only part
>> of functionality it had in 2009.
>> At least till 151a7 everything worked, after that it started falling a
>> part.
>
> Things are getting tested. If we had at least 10 developers and 2 
> testers, we could think about some QA. But as we have 2 non-full-day 
> developers and a lot of work, I'll leave it as it is. If you have a 
> reproducible bug, file it. If you like 151a7 so much, just use it.
I just hoped you won't mention recommendation of using old /dev release, 
(it is there for features and funcionality reference)  but seems like 
you like /dev releses more then you admit.

Numbering Hipster updates inside entire package is not QA, it's just 
distribution planning.
By the way, I said my current Hipster have Hipster ancestors all the way 
down to update done from 151a7 and I have log somewhere to prove it.
If there are some numbered Hipster releases, or if you wouldn't freeze 
unundatable package states in ISOs,
we would have update path from /dev to Hipster already.
How can anyone re-create update path from all those Hipster updates till 
now, to figure out when something was broken? (Like my standby on Laptop 
stopped working in Hipster last year)

>
>> Hipster was fun when I was thinking it leads to the next /dev.
>> It's not fun anymore for a very long time.
>> Rolling releases are just lunacy for general use and could exist only
>> between /dev releases,
>> And not every random package change should survive to next release).
> FreeBSD port system existed in continuously rolling state for a long 
> time. We have no power to do release. We have some objectives which I 
> periodically discuss.
As much I dislike GDA suggesting use of OSX, I also dislike suggesting 
use of FreeBSD. If I wanted FreeBSD I wouldn't be here.
FreeBSD and Linux never had stable APIs, and drivers and binaries that 
work on many different OS releases.
If I wanted ever changing environment with no rules on updates and releases,
I would certainly choose Linux or FreeBSD,
seems to me that importing that kind of way of looking at distros is not 
applicable to Solaris descendent.

There needs the process and procedures of doing things, thing get built 
that way.
"Periodically ad-hock discussing" things is not enough for distribution 
to grow,
especially if new people learn they can't (or can) change course of distro.

How would you for example react if your updated packages in Hipster, 
never end up in /release ?
And it is required that further development starts from /release 
onwards, not other way around?

Would you be mad if your work is actually never used in supported 
version of distro, would you accept that there are also other ways of 
doing things and your way is not always the best way for production use, 
ever?
>
> For the nearest future these are
> 1) Updating Gnome to 2.32
> 2) Importing changes from x-s12-clone
> 3) Updating cairo, pango and glibc.
If we have no power to have any release, what we are actually doing here?
If SOME release (updatable from /dev) is not the goal in at least one 
moment, where it is heading?

At least there must be some release before throwing 32bit cpu support..
>
> I use OI Hipster as my primary desktop. I know there issues (e.g., 
> brasero bugs, inability of 32-bit gdb to handle 64-bit binaries).
> But I don't know any catastrophic issues which prevents using system 
> (besides having a bunch of out-of-date software, which is not rather 
> easy to rebuild).
I understood you use FreeBSD because illumos, OI does not stupport WPA2 
encryption for Wireless on your laptop.  And you moved from there 
without fixing it but used something else instead.
Sometimes I think am the rare one that is actually using OI with 
Thunderbird.

Yeah, I've been using cdrecord instead of Brasero etc..
I used to do ssh -X to run Thunderbird and Firefox for 4 months, after 
that I was forced to abandon old user account and transfer minimal data.
It seems it happened again after Hipster update and I have no idea why.
Also I had one occasion few minutes ago when i actually were able to log 
in in 20141010 with original account (after running apps through ssh -X, 
logging in console, restarting gdm and what else, so It is hard to 
reproduce).
Maybe I could toss somewhere other GNOME settings or insights of that 
account?
Nikola M | 18 Feb 12:05 2015
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Re: Updating Hipster and GUI log-in breakage with mounted ZFS datasets


On 02/18/15 08:24 AM, Alexander Pyhalov wrote:
> Hello.
> 1) Configurations where /opt is on separate pool are not supported. 
Who decided that? When and how?
Where are release notes noticing that? Where is discussion about 
architectural changes about that?
If I can't use /opt for all BE's that I need have to test OI, 
(Oracle-contriubted Firefox and Thunderbird lives there, etc)
I will not have enough disk space to test OI and I will need to say OI 
(At least OI Hipster goodbye.)

If you are one who decided that, please explain how you think to disable 
such important and valuable option of Unix-like OS, just like that?

> Imagine, IPS wants to update the system. How does it do it? 
It worked till now, then some package updates
(what updates, where, how, when in what release - noone knows because 
Hipster will not tell you that.)
It worked through all lifetime of Hipster till now.

I don't quite understand why that should be supported by community to 
remove obviously useful system functions like merely mounting system dir 
wherever I like.

/opt should not generally be used by packages that come with the system.
And if not explicitly installed by user /opt should be generally 
file-free from IPS
OR IPS and OI should not expect it to be inside boot archive.
> Asks libbe to create new boot environment and mount it and then 
> updates packages in it. When /opt is in separate pool libbe doesn't 
> know about this filesystem and creates empty /opt in new BE. IPS 
> installs updated package files to this new /opt and you receive 
> non-empty /opt, which can't be used as FS mountpoint on system boot.
I don't need know what is libbe is, why it is sudenly messing with my 
/opt, why I don't have GUI because of it
and user should simply not care. User cares for it's update to work and 
not to end up with non-working system because of newly introduced bugs.

It worked till now, it should work like explained, it's a bug, revert 
changes that caused it in 2014.1 so people can update their installs.
I can't work with OI without GUI and mounted dir in separate dataset, 
period.

If non-empty Dir can not be mountpoint at boot, IPS should not install 
anything there.
Or it's time to update IPS or update libbe , or system configuration then,
it worked for me till now.

> Now, how do you propose libbe to manage such configurations? Create 
> snapshot of each dataset in separate pool and mount cloned FS? At 
> least, they can be inconsistent, as they are in separate pools and we 
> can't create consistent snapshot. However, I understand, that 
> consistency sometimes can be sacrificed. In any way, libbe doesn't 
> behave this way, but it can be a valuable RFE. Feel free to fill it on 
> bug tracker under illumos project.
It worked before. Why it does not work now?
Libbe should not be dealing with what is not in it's way (and /opt is 
not and it's subvolumes and subvolumes of user's dir volumes.
Something changed and you are master of Hipster that thinks Hipster does 
not need versioned numbers on updates so figure out what changed that 
between August 2014 and 20141010.

I am unable to incrementally update from August to 20141010, so I am 
unable to test it when it started to happen. It wasn't happening till my 
20140824 and 20140826 BEs. It's a bug introduced after it.
>
> 2) As for your system freezing after logging in - it's more interesting.
> Could you get you ~/.xsession-erros log ?
> What if you log in to terminal session and start gnome-session by hands?
I also have mounted datasets under my home dir. Maybe that is also 
Hipster's problem too...

Most intersting thing is that since 151a7 Openindiana is getting more 
and more bugs and user problems, one by one things are stopping to work 
and noone even cares about cries of users.

Things do not get tested before releases, releases are not being 
discussed , made and polished for updates, priorities have not being set,
all we actually have is "updating packages" without idea where OI is 
heading and why and who actually needs a system that does have only part 
of functionality it had in 2009.
At least till 151a7 everything worked, after that it started falling a part.

Hipster was fun when I was thinking it leads to the next /dev.
It's not fun anymore for a very long time.
Rolling releases are just lunacy for general use and could exist only 
between /dev releases,
And not every random package change should survive to next release).

Things should be discussed , announced, explained and problems should be 
worked on instead of putting them under the carpet.

"New morning, new update from the clear sky" is not kind of my distribution.
Testing and releases and support and requests for opinions Before 
something change - is.
Nikola M | 18 Feb 11:25 2015
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Messages sent without "List-Id:" header on the oi-dev mailiing List

Hi,
I started receiving messages from oi-dev mailing list with ommited 
"List-Id:" headers
(should be "List-Id: OpenIndiana Developer mailing list 
<oi-dev.openindiana.org>")
- that makes Mail client mailing list filters not working.

That causes of messages for fulling Inboxes and possible subscribers 
discomfort and possible unsubscribing, so should be avoided.

Don't know what changed,
  but I urge for anyone with power and able to administer OI mailing 
lists,  to check that out and fix it Asap, so that mailing lists could 
work as before.
Thanks.
Nikola M | 18 Feb 07:53 2015
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Updating Hipster and GUI log-in breakage with mounted ZFS datasets

There is updating Hipster and GUI log-in breakage with mounted ZFS datasets.

Updating Hipster is broken for me since before last 2014.1 update. 
(Updating from August 2014.1 Hipster)
I have /opt in separate dataset and it worked fine before, but when 
updating to last 2014.1 (20141010) with pkg update -v ,  gdm and many 
services do not start and X with it.
Seems like some packages during update, insist in putting files inside 
/opt exclusively on system dataset and it breaks booting rest of the OS 
right.
It reports that /opt is non-empty and insists on it even if it is empty, 
untill also dirs made for mounting sub-datasets are removed. After 
booting with datasets and subdatasets mounted in /opt it sort of works 
(boot to gdm) but it is unable to do so after regular update - that is a 
bug.

I tried emptying /opt and then mounting dataset to /opt (and child 
datasets under /opt) and 20141010 booted and I was able to log in with 
one administrator account through gdm, but logging with another account 
(one that I regularly used in August 2014 Hipster) completely locks 
machine (X, VTs, everything)..
This kind of behavior (not able to log in as one user or locking system 
on logging in) is what I experienced also one time before in Hipster 
(Begining of 2014 I think) and I ended up re-making new account and 
copying only needed data to it .

My suspicion goes to the fact that at my setup, both /opt and /home/user 
datasets have child datasets under it (snapshotting /opt and separate 
snapshots for application data directories) and that is what I suspect 
breaks both updating Hipster and locking system on logging in.

Behavior with broken update (and gdm not starting and other services, 
complaining that /opt is non-empty) is same with /hipster-2015 (I used 
nwamadm from command line (ouch!) and pkg update to update)

Conclusion is that people that are regularly updating Hipster to 
ever-updating rolling releases and using separate datasets and 
sub-datasets end up not being able to start system services, gdm nor X 
and end up in CLI-only OI , not able to test new X.

I suggest updating Hipster be fixed inside 2014.1 publisher first , to 
ensure people having Hipster can update to it right, so they can move to 
hipster-2015.
If not they currently end up with largely unusable system (without 
educated interventions), not able to follow Hipster updates anymore.  
(And that breaks Hipster ever updating idea)
Alexander Pyhalov | 15 Feb 05:13 2015
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[HEADSUP] X server update in OpenIndiana Hipster

Hello.
We are ready to announce Xorg update in OpenIndiana Hipster.
X server was updated to 1.12.4, x11/server/xdmx server was added.
Xvnc was rebuilt on the base of the new X server.

X server device drivers were updated to the following versions:
xorg-input-acecad 1.5.0
xorg-input-hotkey 0.5.11 (later version from Oracle)
xorg-input-keyboard 1.8.0
xorg-input-mouse 1.9.1
xorg-input-synaptics 1.8.1
xorg-input-vmmouse 13.0.0
xorg-input-void 1.4.0
xorg-video-ast 1.0.1
xorg-video-ati 6.14.6
xorg-video-cirrus 1.5.2
xorg-video-dummy 0.3.7
xorg-video-intel 2.18.0
xorg-video-mach64 6.9.4
xorg-video-mga 1.6.3
xorg-video-nv 2.1.20
xorg-video-openchrome 0.3.3
xorg-video-r128 6.9.2
xorg-video-radeonhd 1.3.0
xorg-video-savage 2.3.7
xorg-video-trident 1.3.6
xorg-video-vesa 2.3.3
xorg-video-vmware 13.1.0

The following device drivers were removed (as these devices are rather 
old and drivers were 32-bit only):
xorg-video-apm
xorg-video-ark
xorg-video-chips
xorg-video-glint
xorg-video-i128
xorg-video-i740
xorg-video-neomagic
xorg-video-rendition
xorg-video-s3
xorg-video-s3virge
xorg-video-siliconmotion
xorg-video-sis
xorg-video-tdfx
xorg-video-tga
xorg-video-tseng

X-consolidation (a meta-package, installing all X Window packages) was 
marked obsolete as a rudiment of XNV gate.
To install typical desktop system you are supposed to use 
metapackages/gui-install meta-package.

Great thanks to Alan Coopersmith and Ken Mays, without them it would be 
hardly possible.

Also we are greatful to Oracle corporation for open x-s12-clone gate.

Please update your systems and report any issues.

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Alexander Pyhalov | 14 Feb 15:06 2015
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Re: Recommended XServer updates

Hi. I've just compiled xorg server 1.12.4.
It seems to be OK. Almost OK. The issue is that all xorg-{video,input}* 
drivers should be recompiled,
and we still don't have them all in oi-userland. Now I'm going to add 
them to oi-userland.

Xorg 1.12.4: 
https://github.com/pyhalov/oi-userland/compare/xorg-server-1.12.4

---
System Administrator of Southern Federal University Computer Center

ken mays писал 11.02.2015 19:28:
> Alex,
> Update/add these before Xserver 1.12.4 update:
> 1. Bump XTrans to latest2. Bump Xproto to latest3. Bump fontsproto to
> latest4. Bump glproto to latest5. Add presentproto
> Thanks,Ken

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Alexander Pyhalov | 13 Feb 11:33 2015
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protobuf 2.6.0.

Hello, Predrag, Auréliaen.

I have a small question about 
https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/1034

Why library is 32-bit only? Is some dependency missing or build system 
conflicts with native support for building 64-bit  libraries? Perhaps, 
if latter is the case, setting some env variables to "" will help?
--

-- 
Best regards,
Alexander Pyhalov,
system administrator of Southern Federal University IT department

Gmane