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Johnny Billquist | 6 Feb 2007 20:00
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Re: binary blobs

Speaking of BLOBs, there have been one the the VAX distribution since 
atleast BSD 4.3 days, and that is the patch to the microcode for the 
VAX-11/750. :-)

	Johnny
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Michael Lorenz | 6 Feb 2007 20:50
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Re: binary blobs


Hello,

On Feb 6, 2007, at 14:00, Johnny Billquist wrote:

> Speaking of BLOBs, there have been one the the VAX distribution since 
> atleast BSD 4.3 days, and that is the patch to the microcode for the 
> VAX-11/750. :-)

Then there's firmware for various SCSI and FC HBAs ( think esiop, isp 
and the like ) - just have a look at src/sys/dev/microcode/

have fun
Michael
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Thomas E. Spanjaard | 6 Feb 2007 22:20

Re: binary blobs

Michael Lorenz wrote:
> On Feb 6, 2007, at 14:00, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>>> Speaking of BLOBs, there have been one the the VAX distribution since 
>>> atleast BSD 4.3 days, and that is the patch to the microcode for the 
>>> VAX-11/750. :-)
> Then there's firmware for various SCSI and FC HBAs ( think esiop, isp 
> and the like ) - just have a look at src/sys/dev/microcode/

Those are not driver-BLOBs which the OP referred to as I understood it. 
Firmware does not use the host processor, and CPU microcode updates 
don't really 'run' on the host CPU either, just the host CPU's 
instruction decoder ;).

Cheers,
--

-- 
         Thomas E. Spanjaard
         tgen <at> netphreax.net
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bart sikkes | 17 Feb 2007 20:07
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hooking up a console

hello,

this isn't really related to the vax port itself, but this is the best
place i can find for asking vax related questions. if there is another
place that would be better please let me know.

i got a couple of vax boxes and eventually i want them to run netbsd.
but currently im mainly interested in checking their status. for that
i believe that hooking up a console would be the easiest thing to do.
i got a couple of terminals around here that should work i guess, but
im unable to make this work.

i got a VAXstation 4000 VLC, a VAXstation 4000 60 and a MicroVax
3100-30. for terminals i have a Texas Instruments Model 928 VDT and a
Wyse WY-50. in my mind i should be able to just hook up a console to
the correct port on the vax and i should get output. but is it indeed
that simple? could in general a TI terminal be used or do i need vax
terminal or such?

i have a cable with two phone like connectors, i believe these are
used in the DEC423 ports? all the vaxes have one or more of the port
these connectors fit into and the TI terminal has it also. making this
connection seems like the logical thing to do, but is it the correct
one?

with an uVax II i once worked on i used a serial DB25 female - female
DB9 cable, but i think i need a serial DB25 female - DB25 female cable
for these vaxes and terminals. can any basic female-female DB25 cable
be used for this and would it work better or differently from the
phone connectors like cable?
(Continue reading)

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todd | 18 Feb 2007 06:00

Re: hooking up a console

Bart:
          The serial port settings all look good, but the 9600 speed may 
not match the computer. The quotes "bunch of non logical characters" and 
"repeating a similar block" could be a symptom of mismatched baud rates. 
You may try different baud rates. The baud rate on the uVax II, and uVax 
III were set using jumpers or switches on the console device plugged 
into the CPU board. I am not sure how it was set on the models you 
listed, but 9600 and 19200 were common defaults.

         Without documentation on each device I can't answer your cable 
connection questions, but most serial connectors have two different 
types "DTE" and "DCE", (Data Terminal Equipment & Data Computer 
Equipment). The main difference between them in this situation is which 
pin in the connector is output, and which is input. The two types have 
opposite connections for input and output so they can be connected 
directly to each other, pin for pin, with a "straight through" cable. If 
you need to connect DTE to DTE, or DCE to DCE, then a "null modem" or 
"flip cable" would be required, connecting each input to the others 
output. Each manufacturer used different standards for which of these 
two, DTE/DCE, were put on terminals, and computers. The type of 
connector also changed over time including DB25, DB9, RJ45, RJ12, and 
DEC had a custom RJ45 like connector with an off-center clip. The two 
standards, DTE/DCE,  for pin connections on the DB25 are well known, but 
some of the others depended on the manufacturer.  Fitting the cables and 
connectors will only work if the correct pins are interconnected, 
matching the inputs with the outputs. You also need a common ground 
connection between the two ends for a minimum of 3 wires. These serial 
connection problems were often solved using a tool called a Breakout 
Box. Other ways included using a volt/ohm meter, scope, or just using 
trial & error. You should find an idle output between -5 and -12 volts,
(Continue reading)

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Carl Lowenstein | 18 Feb 2007 07:20
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Re: hooking up a console

On 2/17/07, todd <markleyt <at> compusleuth.com> wrote:
> Bart:
>           The serial port settings all look good, but the 9600 speed may
> not match the computer. The quotes "bunch of non logical characters" and
> "repeating a similar block" could be a symptom of mismatched baud rates.
> You may try different baud rates. The baud rate on the uVax II, and uVax
> III were set using jumpers or switches on the console device plugged
> into the CPU board. I am not sure how it was set on the models you
> listed, but 9600 and 19200 were common defaults.

MicroVAX II for sure has baud-rate select on a rotary switch on the back panel.

> Todd
>
> bart sikkes wrote:
> >
> > i got a VAXstation 4000 VLC, a VAXstation 4000 60 and a MicroVax
> > 3100-30. for terminals i have a Texas Instruments Model 928 VDT and a
> > Wyse WY-50. in my mind i should be able to just hook up a console to
> > the correct port on the vax and i should get output. but is it indeed
> > that simple? could in general a TI terminal be used or do i need vax
> > terminal or such?
> >
> > i have a cable with two phone like connectors, i believe these are
> > used in the DEC423 ports? all the vaxes have one or more of the port
> > these connectors fit into and the TI terminal has it also. making this
> > connection seems like the logical thing to do, but is it the correct
> > one?

Is this like a phone connector but with the locating key off-center?
(Continue reading)

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Johnny Billquist | 18 Feb 2007 12:05
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Re: hooking up a console

Nitpick: DCE is Data Communication Equipment. Typically a modem.
So you'd have a DTE (terminal) hooked to a DCE (a modem). then a phone 
line, then a DCE again (another modem) and finally another DTE (the 
computer). And you'd only use straight cables.

And this is all RS-232C, or V.24. Older documentation might call it EIA 
as well.

There is actually also a standard about gender. DTEs should be male, and 
DCEs should be female. Oh, and all connectors should be DB-25. Now, if 
only the world would have followed this, everything would be so nice. 
Unfortunately, almost noone did. First of all they confused DTE and DCE. 
And then they confused the genders as well. So in the real world, you'll 
have to have all combinations of genders and DTE/DCE wiring.
And then came IBM, with it's typical fashion of just breaking 
everything, and moved to a DE-9 with the wires totally messed up, so 
that all bets were off again. *sigh*

	Johnny

todd wrote:
> Bart:
>          The serial port settings all look good, but the 9600 speed may 
> not match the computer. The quotes "bunch of non logical characters" and 
> "repeating a similar block" could be a symptom of mismatched baud rates. 
> You may try different baud rates. The baud rate on the uVax II, and uVax 
> III were set using jumpers or switches on the console device plugged 
> into the CPU board. I am not sure how it was set on the models you 
> listed, but 9600 and 19200 were common defaults.
>
(Continue reading)

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Johnny Billquist | 18 Feb 2007 12:08
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Re: hooking up a console

Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> On 2/17/07, todd <markleyt <at> compusleuth.com> wrote:
> 
>> bart sikkes wrote:
>> >
>> > i got a VAXstation 4000 VLC, a VAXstation 4000 60 and a MicroVax
>> > 3100-30. for terminals i have a Texas Instruments Model 928 VDT and a
>> > Wyse WY-50. in my mind i should be able to just hook up a console to
>> > the correct port on the vax and i should get output. but is it indeed
>> > that simple? could in general a TI terminal be used or do i need vax
>> > terminal or such?
>> >
>> > i have a cable with two phone like connectors, i believe these are
>> > used in the DEC423 ports? all the vaxes have one or more of the port
>> > these connectors fit into and the TI terminal has it also. making this
>> > connection seems like the logical thing to do, but is it the correct
>> > one?
> 
> 
> Is this like a phone connector but with the locating key off-center?
> If so, it is a DECconnect special.  You can learn a lot by googling
> for DECconnect.

Look for "MMJ".

>> > with an uVax II i once worked on i used a serial DB25 female - female
>> > DB9 cable, but i think i need a serial DB25 female - DB25 female cable
>> > for these vaxes and terminals. can any basic female-female DB25 cable
>> > be used for this and would it work better or differently from the
>> > phone connectors like cable?
(Continue reading)

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John Wilson | 18 Feb 2007 21:09
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Re: hooking up a console

From: Johnny Billquist <bqt <at> softjar.se>

>And then came IBM, with it's typical fashion of just breaking 
>everything, and moved to a DE-9 with the wires totally messed up, so 
>that all bets were off again. *sigh*

It could be worse, at least the DE-9 was male!  And that was (originally)
only COM2 on the AT dual-serial board (since the back plate had space for
DB25+DE9 but not for two DB25s).  The AT's COM1, and the PC/XT COM board,
used a male DB25 wired as DTE (although the PC/XT original also used some
pins for 20mA and had a jumper plug to change modes), so things started
out OK at least, not like the Radio Shack junk which was all backwards.

I really don't get how people decided the DE-9 should become the first
choice though (I think it was serial mice that started it, they were usually
on COM2).  I still have piles of DE-9/DB25 cables, and even modems made
for PCs (Hayes, USR, Bocamodem) usually had DB25s on them (until later).
It's surprising that IBM's DE-9 pinout didn't happen to look more like
DEC's, I mean it seems like the obvious thing to do to change as few pin
numbers as possible compared to the DB-25 so you'd think a data-leads-only
2+3+7 cable would have worked everywhere.  It sounds like IBM was really
cheaping out on development though, they honestly thought PCs were a fad
that wouldn't last (that's why they chose the 8088 in the first place --
it worked with 8080A peripheral chips so they could slap something together
w/o having to cook up an I/O system from scratch).

John Wilson
D Bit
(Continue reading)

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Dave McGuire | 18 Feb 2007 22:51

Re: hooking up a console

On Feb 18, 2007, at 3:09 PM, John Wilson wrote:
> It sounds like IBM was really
> cheaping out on development though, they honestly thought PCs were  
> a fad
> that wouldn't last

   It was, at least for those of us with any architectural taste. ;)

           -Dave, PeeCee Free since ~1987

--

-- 
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
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