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Jost Menke | 2 May 2005 14:42
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~200MB NetBSD with X apps, is it possible?

Hi all,

I only have a 256MB CF card for my Jornada, but i'd like to have a few X
applications (dillo, some small mail client, xpdf...). I've setup a machine
for cross-compiling and successfully built a custom kernel. Now I'd like to
cross-compile a userland which is as small as possible. Is there an easy way
of leaving out stuff I don't need (e.g. sendmail)? In FreeBSD, you can
configure this in /etc/make.conf, by setting NO_SENDMAIL=true.

Is there another way of saving space (e.g. linking applications statically)?
Any suggestions welcome.

Regards,
Jost Menke

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Johann Franz | 2 May 2005 17:31
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Re: ~200MB NetBSD with X apps, is it possible?

On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 02:42:57PM +0200, Jost Menke wrote:
> Is there an easy way
> of leaving out stuff I don't need (e.g. sendmail)? In FreeBSD, you can
> configure this in /etc/make.conf, by setting NO_SENDMAIL=true.

It's in mk.conf(5): MKSENDMAIL=no

> Is there another way of saving space (e.g. linking applications statically)?
> Any suggestions welcome.

Afaict statical linking increases space, in runtime and in storage, since the libraries are rather
'copied' than referenced.

I'm getting my Jornada in a few days and will dive into it more. :)
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Jost Menke | 2 May 2005 16:10
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Re: ~200MB NetBSD with X apps, is it possible?


> On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 02:42:57PM +0200, Jost Menke wrote:
> > Is there an easy way
> > of leaving out stuff I don't need (e.g. sendmail)? In FreeBSD, you can
> > configure this in /etc/make.conf, by setting NO_SENDMAIL=true.
> 
> It's in mk.conf(5): MKSENDMAIL=no

I already read about that file, yet I didn't find it on my system. I'll
check again this evening.

> 
> > Is there another way of saving space (e.g. linking applications
> statically)?
> > Any suggestions welcome.
> 
> Afaict statical linking increases space, in runtime and in storage, since
> the libraries are rather 'copied' than referenced.

As far as I understand that, it _might_ save space when an application only
uses a small amount of functions a library provides. But this is just a
guess, I admit.

> 
> I'm getting my Jornada in a few days and will dive into it more. :)
> 
> 

Welcome to the club ;)
(Continue reading)

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Jost Menke | 2 May 2005 16:35
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Re: ~200MB NetBSD with X apps, is it possible?

On 5/2/05, Steven Murray <steven.murray <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> I think at 256mb you will be pushing it a bit, especially since a
> 512mb card is so cheap even 1gb is very cheap

and they will be even cheaper in a few months ;)

> dont bother with the
> ultra cards, they are no faster in the jornada (no noticeable increase
> in performance). I will let you know though as i am away to rebuild a
> userland and kernel this week.
> 
> Steven 

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I can't afford a bigger card. But I think
there's no need to carry around bloated stuff you don't need on a mobile
device.

Regards,
Jost

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Guillaume Tessier | 2 May 2005 18:46
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jornada 720 : i'd need infos & tips

Hello,

For my birthday, my dad offered me a jornada 720 he found on ebay.fr .
The machine is in good order and it's fine netbsd got ported on it.
I red the OnLamp article about setting up a bsd system onto hp handled 
pc. However, i still have plenty of questions.... and i guess this is 
the best place to get answers as people here might know their jornada 
pretty much.

* first of all, am i on the right mailing list?
I have still doubt about if the jornada 720 depends of the SH3 port or 
the HPCARM. There is strongarm cpu in my machine. But on the SH3 netbsd 
port page, there is a picture of a jornada 720....
However, as i have been looking for win ce apps, there are usually SH3 
binaries and ARM binaries...
Which win ce binaries should i use?

* the sync cable
After the first question you may wonder : "dude, try both windows 
binaries and you'll know!". The problem is that the  dude from ebay 
didn't chip any sync cable with the device. So, as microsoft is king of 
interoperability, you need another win machine with their proprietary 
program to install stuff on the jornada trough the sync cable....

Right, i found a retailer that can get me the two kinds of sync cables:
- sync cable : jornada ----> serial port on host pc
- sync cable  : jornada ----> usb port on host pc

But of course, it's over expensive... 60 euros for each...
So i won't buy them both.
(Continue reading)

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Jost Menke | 2 May 2005 19:12
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Re: jornada 720 : i'd need infos & tips

On Mon, 02 May 2005 18:46:16 +0200, Guillaume Tessier  
<g_tessier <at> orange.fr> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> For my birthday, my dad offered me a jornada 720 he found on ebay.fr .
> The machine is in good order and it's fine netbsd got ported on it.
> I red the OnLamp article about setting up a bsd system onto hp handled  
> pc. However, i still have plenty of questions.... and i guess this is  
> the best place to get answers as people here might know their jornada  
> pretty much.
>
> * first of all, am i on the right mailing list?
> I have still doubt about if the jornada 720 depends of the SH3 port or  
> the HPCARM. There is strongarm cpu in my machine. But on the SH3 netbsd  
> port page, there is a picture of a jornada 720....
> However, as i have been looking for win ce apps, there are usually SH3  
> binaries and ARM binaries...
> Which win ce binaries should i use?

well, you're on the right mailing list for NetBSD on the Jornada, but not  
for Win CE binaries I suppose ;)

>
> * the sync cable
> After the first question you may wonder : "dude, try both windows  
> binaries and you'll know!". The problem is that the  dude from ebay  
> didn't chip any sync cable with the device. So, as microsoft is king of  
> interoperability, you need another win machine with their proprietary  
> program to install stuff on the jornada trough the sync cable....
(Continue reading)

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Jason Mitchell | 2 May 2005 19:32

RE: jornada 720 : i'd need infos & tips

> -----Original Message-----
> From: port-hpcarm-owner <at> NetBSD.org
> [mailto:port-hpcarm-owner <at> NetBSD.org]On Behalf Of Jost Menke
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 1:13 PM
> To: Guillaume Tessier; port-hpcarm <at> NetBSD.org
> Subject: Re: jornada 720 : i'd need infos & tips
>
>
> On Mon, 02 May 2005 18:46:16 +0200, Guillaume Tessier
> <g_tessier <at> orange.fr> wrote:
>
> AFAIK, the USB cable can only be used with the docking station.
> At least I
> can't see any USB connector on my Jornada itself. And since you
> will very
> likely depend on the serial console output in the beginning (e.g. to
> choose the boot medium with the generic kernel), I recommend buying the
> serial cable. You can't see the boot messages of the kernel on
> the Jornada
> itself, it only spits it to the serial console.

While the serial cable is definitely the better choice, you can see the
kernel messages on the Jornada screen. Just uncheck "use serial console" in
hpcboot. Also, by default /dev/console is a symlink to /dev/ttyS0, but you
can change it to link to /dev/ttyE0 (this is from memory, so I may be a
little off with the filenames). That will allow you to see the messages from
the daemons as they start.
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Ignatios Souvatzis | 2 May 2005 20:50
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Re: jornada 720 : i'd need infos & tips

Hi,

it's easy to set up a serial PPP connection between Windows CE and
NetBSD; you'll find instructions by Google and replacing Linux for 
NetBSD, then back. Once you have that connection, use the builtin 
Pocket Internet Explorer to pull stuff. I think there are two Windows
CD ftp servers around somewhere, which might make transferring more stuff,
especially in the other direction, easier.

I did this with a '820 with WinCE 3.0 a while ago.

Regards,
	-is
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Guillaume Tessier | 2 May 2005 21:56
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thanks for your wise advices!

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post and led me to the right way!

* sync cable
That right : the docking cradlle is needed to use the sync cable usb. As 
i do not have this device : the choice is clear!

* compact flash
about windows ce : yes i t transfered windows binaries with my cf but i 
couldn't run them onto windows.... i tried both SH3 and ARM. The install 
process for win binaries is tricky as you need to use another win box 
and install the binaries within an apps named ActiveSync through the 
sync cable...

* netbsd
i checked matchbox and it looks excellent.

I also checked the repository ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/arch/hpcarm/
Do we need to build the whole system on the jornada? It might take days! 
If the lill'machine doesn't burn after some hours!

* about sound/audio
Kind of app i'd definitely enjoy to use (except from ansi and compilers) 
is audio apps.
Of course not ROsegarden, but little drumboxes...
But i read audio doesn't work on netbsd onto jornada... is that right?

Mates, thanks again for your wise advices!
(Continue reading)

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Jost Menke | 2 May 2005 22:40
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Re: thanks for your wise advices!

On Mon, 02 May 2005 21:56:12 +0200, Guillaume Tessier  
<g_tessier <at> orange.fr> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks to everyone who replied to my post and led me to the right way!
>
> * sync cable
> That right : the docking cradlle is needed to use the sync cable usb. As  
> i do not have this device : the choice is clear!
>
> * compact flash
> about windows ce : yes i t transfered windows binaries with my cf but i  
> couldn't run them onto windows.... i tried both SH3 and ARM. The install  
> process for win binaries is tricky as you need to use another win box  
> and install the binaries within an apps named ActiveSync through the  
> sync cable...
>
> * netbsd
> i checked matchbox and it looks excellent.
>
> I also checked the repository  
> ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/arch/hpcarm/
> Do we need to build the whole system on the jornada? It might take days!  
> If the lill'machine doesn't burn after some hours!

You don't have to. You can use the binary sets from the ftp server or -as  
NetBSD is designed for portability- cross-compile on another platform.

>
(Continue reading)

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