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Mark Smith | 1 Dec 2007 01:52

Re: The separation of church and state.


On 30 Nov 2007, at 03:14, Matt Johnston wrote:

> I admit there's a ruckuss in the media about creationism in Science
> over in the US but that's just in backward areas right?

Be afraid, be very afraid. Creationists are infiltrating schools in  
(at least) Denmark and Germany. There was a documentary from a  
reliable film maker on one of the most conservative channels here in  
Germany about this around 6 months ago.

More recently, friends of ours reported that they were confronted with  
creationist school teachers at an open day at a *primary* school here  
in Berlin.

Likely part of a coordinated international effort financed by one of  
the big fundy institutions in the US.

Mark.

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Chuck Bennett | 1 Dec 2007 15:30
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Re: CIA in Venezuela


On Nov 30, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote:

>> http://www.democracynow.org/2007/11/30/tens_of_thousands_protest_chavez_proposals
>
> JAMES PETRAS: Well, obviously, it’s a memo that the US will denounce.
> They always have this clause in their operation that they should be
> able to have an out.

More likely that Hugo's 'dictator for life' laws are going to fail and  
he's looking for a scape goat.

No other way that the people would vote against a Communist taking  
over the country and wanting a law to let him run it for life.

right?

Could the CIA be there?  I'm sure they are.

Would they bother to foment trouble that could cause oil prices to go  
up even more.

Don't think so.

=c=

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Jared ''Danger'' Earle | 1 Dec 2007 16:18
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Re: CIA in Venezuela

On 1 Dec 2007, at 14:30, Chuck Bennett wrote:
> Would they bother to foment trouble that could cause oil prices to go
> up even more.

Is the government supposed to care about the price of oil?

--

-- 
      Jared Earle, Nightfall Games, jared@... - http://www.23x.net
        "One SPORK to bring them all and in the darkness bind them."

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rogerhoward | 1 Dec 2007 18:10

Re: CIA in Venezuela


On Dec 1, 2007, at 7:18 AM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote:

> On 1 Dec 2007, at 14:30, Chuck Bennett wrote:
>> Would they bother to foment trouble that could cause oil prices to go
>> up even more.
>
>
> Is the government supposed to care about the price of oil?

Well, in a free market, of course not... but, well, the right likes to  
have it both ways - we're a free market until we're not.

Anyway, I don't see why a government *wouldn't* care about the price  
of oil in their country - that's a major influence on economic  
stability and security. Whether the measures they take to ensure good  
prices are appropriate or not is a different question.. is fomenting  
(or not) revolution in a democratically elected state appropriate just  
to maintain stable prices appropriate? I dunno.

I do know that while Chavez is a populist with a lot of support, some  
of the "reforms" he's pushing now have laid bare his worst side for  
the world to see. We can argue the merits of industrial  
nationalization, land redistribution, social welfare, etc, but I don't  
see what removing term limits and other basic power checks does to  
advance anything but his own personal power.

-R
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Larry Sica | 1 Dec 2007 19:38
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Re: CIA in Venezuela


On Dec 1, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Chuck Bennett wrote:

>
> On Nov 30, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Kevin Callahan wrote:
>
>>> http://www.democracynow.org/2007/11/30/tens_of_thousands_protest_chavez_proposals
>>
>> JAMES PETRAS: Well, obviously, it’s a memo that the US will denounce.
>> They always have this clause in their operation that they should be
>> able to have an out.
>
>
> More likely that Hugo's 'dictator for life' laws are going to fail and
> he's looking for a scape goat.
>
> No other way that the people would vote against a Communist taking
> over the country and wanting a law to let him run it for life.
>
> right?
>
> Could the CIA be there?  I'm sure they are.
>
> Would they bother to foment trouble that could cause oil prices to go
> up even more.
>

Sure they would to get a friendly government in power.  It's been  
shown time and again that the US Gov't will do whatever it thinks is  
needed to ensure a "friendly" regime.  Saddam, The Shah, Cuba.  It's
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Larry Sica | 1 Dec 2007 19:40
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Re: CIA in Venezuela


On Dec 1, 2007, at 12:10 PM, rogerhoward@... wrote:

>
> On Dec 1, 2007, at 7:18 AM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote:
>
>> On 1 Dec 2007, at 14:30, Chuck Bennett wrote:
>>> Would they bother to foment trouble that could cause oil prices to  
>>> go
>>> up even more.
>>
>>
>> Is the government supposed to care about the price of oil?
>
> Well, in a free market, of course not... but, well, the right likes to
> have it both ways - we're a free market until we're not.
>
> Anyway, I don't see why a government *wouldn't* care about the price
> of oil in their country - that's a major influence on economic
> stability and security. Whether the measures they take to ensure good
> prices are appropriate or not is a different question.. is fomenting
> (or not) revolution in a democratically elected state appropriate just
> to maintain stable prices appropriate? I dunno.
>

Of course they care.  Energy prices are a major issue.  It has such a  
profound effect on the overall economy and can make or break a  
politician, or a party.

> I do know that while Chavez is a populist with a lot of support, some
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Matt Johnston | 2 Dec 2007 13:17
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US says it has right to kidnap British citizens - Times Online

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2982640.ece

Ahhhhh thus is fabulous.

Tax evaders .... Real dangers to society.

What's next? Jaywalking? Parking fines? Criticising the government?

--
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Stefano Mori | 2 Dec 2007 14:54
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Re: US says it has right to kidnap British citizens - Times Online


On 2007-Dec-02, at 12:17, Matt Johnston wrote:

> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2982640.ece
>
> Ahhhhh thus is fabulous.
>
> Tax evaders .... Real dangers to society.
>
> What's next? Jaywalking? Parking fines? Criticising the government?

But who kidnaps the kidnappers?

Stefano

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Henry McGilton | 2 Dec 2007 16:33
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Re: US says it has right to kidnap British citizens - Times Online


On Dec 2, 2007, at 4:17 AM, Matt Johnston wrote:

> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/ 
> article2982640.ece
>
> Ahhhhh thus is fabulous.
>
> Tax evaders .... Real dangers to society.
>
> What's next? Jaywalking? Parking fines? Criticising the government?

Shades of the Barbary Coast . . .
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Guy Hammond | 2 Dec 2007 17:59

Re: US says it has right to kidnap British citizens - Times Online

Matt Johnston wrote:
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2982640.ece
>
> Ahhhhh thus is fabulous.
>
> Tax evaders .... Real dangers to society.
>
> What's next? Jaywalking? Parking fines? Criticising the government?
>   

How exactly does it plan to do this? Even our limp-wristed government is 
bound to object to cowboy Americans running around London grabbing 
people off the street at random.

And let's not forget what will happen to the many, many Americans 
resident in Londonistan if a suspected terrorist is picked up in this way.

Cheers,

G

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Gmane