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Maxime Henrion | 1 Mar 2006 18:03
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HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

	Hey all,

I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, called
csup-snap-20060301.  You can grab it at http://mu.org/~mux/csup.html.
This last snapshot finally brings in support for the refuse files, as
well as the -i <pattern> and -A <localaddr> options.  At this point,
csup is pretty much feature complete as far as checkout mode is
concerned.  To sum things up, besides CVS mode, the only features
missing are :

  - Authentication (rarely used, plus someone has a patch for this),
  - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely used),
  - The -k and -d <limit> options and the "destDir" parameters that are
    more debugging features than real features,
  - An Xaw3d GUI (just kidding).

So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system so that
our users finally have a way to update their sources with a bare
install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem reports on the
matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a bikeshed.

For those interested in CVS mode, I'll now start working on this soon,
but cannot guarantee that I'll ever have it finished.  I've been
unemployed for a few months now which allowed me to get this far, but I
will soon need to get a new job for obvious reasons.  If you would like
to see CVS mode happening and can spare some money, please consider
making a donation to my Paypal account (id mux <at> FreeBSD.org).  I take
advantage of this mail to thank Garance Drosehn that has generously
donated me some money to help me on this task already.
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Colin Percival | 1 Mar 2006 18:15
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Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

Maxime Henrion wrote:
> So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system so that
> our users finally have a way to update their sources with a bare
> install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem reports on the
> matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a bikeshed.

Yes please!

I'd love to see CVS mode and authentication support as well, but given
the number of people who don't apply security fixes (over 60% of FreeBSD
6.0 systems running portsnap are still running 6.0-RELEASE) I'd say that
anything which makes updating easier is great.

Colin Percival
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Kövesdán Gábor | 1 Mar 2006 18:51
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Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

Maxime Henrion wrote:

>	Hey all,
>
>
>I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago, called
>csup-snap-20060301.  You can grab it at http://mu.org/~mux/csup.html.
>This last snapshot finally brings in support for the refuse files, as
>well as the -i <pattern> and -A <localaddr> options.  At this point,
>csup is pretty much feature complete as far as checkout mode is
>concerned.  To sum things up, besides CVS mode, the only features
>missing are :
>
>  - Authentication (rarely used, plus someone has a patch for this),
>  - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely used),
>  - The -k and -d <limit> options and the "destDir" parameters that are
>    more debugging features than real features,
>  - An Xaw3d GUI (just kidding).
>
>So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system so that
>our users finally have a way to update their sources with a bare
>install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem reports on the
>matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a bikeshed.
>
>For those interested in CVS mode, I'll now start working on this soon,
>but cannot guarantee that I'll ever have it finished.  I've been
>unemployed for a few months now which allowed me to get this far, but I
>will soon need to get a new job for obvious reasons.  If you would like
>to see CVS mode happening and can spare some money, please consider
>making a donation to my Paypal account (id mux <at> FreeBSD.org).  I take
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Maxime Henrion | 1 Mar 2006 19:20
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Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

Maxime Henrion wrote:
[...]
> So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system so that
> our users finally have a way to update their sources with a bare
> install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem reports on the
> matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a bikeshed.

Just so that people don't waste time reporting this: there is a
use-after-free bug in the last snapshot that is already fixed in CVS.
That will teach me to set malloc.conf to aj!

Cheers,
Maxime
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Scott Long | 1 Mar 2006 20:30

Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

Maxime Henrion wrote:
> 	Hey all,
> 
> 
> I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago,

[...]

> 
>   - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely used),

Are you joking?

Scott
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Garance A Drosehn | 1 Mar 2006 21:18
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Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

At 6:03 PM +0100 3/1/06, Maxime Henrion wrote:
>
>So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system
>so that our users finally have a way to update their sources
>with a bare install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem
>reports on the matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a
>bikeshed.

I wonder if we should handle this more like perl (or X11?), where
it remains a port, but a port which is always installed along
with the base-system install.  My hope is that with the new
C-based implementation, 'csup' would be useful to other projects.
(any cvs-based open-source project, not just operating systems).

I would also be happy to see it as part of the freebsd base system,
so I only mention the above alternative because I'm wondering what
would be the best way to handle a project like this...

Whether or not it goes into the base system, I hope more people
can take the time to try it out, and make sure that it will be
well-tested.

>If you would like to see CVS mode happening and can spare some
>money, please consider making a donation to my Paypal account
>(id mux <at> FreeBSD.org).  I take advantage of this mail to thank
>Garance Drosehn that has generously donated me some money to
>help me on this task already.

I've contributed enough to keep him in caffeine, but certainly
not enough to be mistaken for a full-time employer...  :-)
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Scott Long | 1 Mar 2006 21:24

Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

Garance A Drosehn wrote:
> At 6:03 PM +0100 3/1/06, Maxime Henrion wrote:
> 
>>
>> So I think it is now time to import csup in FreeBSD base system
>> so that our users finally have a way to update their sources
>> with a bare install, and am requesting comments/opinions/problem
>> reports on the matter as long as it doesn't degenerate into a
>> bikeshed.
> 
> 
> I wonder if we should handle this more like perl (or X11?), where
> it remains a port, but a port which is always installed along
> with the base-system install.  My hope is that with the new
> C-based implementation, 'csup' would be useful to other projects.
> (any cvs-based open-source project, not just operating systems).
> 

perl is the way it is to help ease the transition back 5+ years ago
with FreeBSD 4.  I'd kinda like to declare that transition a completed
success.  Adding more one-off special cases to sysinstall only makes
it harder to maintain, harder to build releases, etc.

> I would also be happy to see it as part of the freebsd base system,
> so I only mention the above alternative because I'm wondering what
> would be the best way to handle a project like this...

Make it part of the base system.  It's no different than having cvs in
the base system.  It also doesn't have any foreign dependencies, which
was the main reason that cvsup was never assimilated.
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Lowell Gilbert | 1 Mar 2006 21:33
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Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

Scott Long <scottl <at> samsco.org> writes:

> Maxime Henrion wrote:
> > 	Hey all,
> > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago,
> 
> [...]
> 
> >   - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely
> > used),
> 
> Are you joking?

Are you asking whether he's joking about (1) the idea of ever
implementing it, (2) the fact that he hasn't done it yet, or 
(3) the idea that it's rarely used?  All of those sound 
reasonable to me...
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Wesley Shields | 1 Mar 2006 22:19
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Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:33:41PM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote:
> Scott Long <scottl <at> samsco.org> writes:
> 
> > Maxime Henrion wrote:
> > > 	Hey all,
> > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago,
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > >   - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely
> > > used),
> > 
> > Are you joking?
> 
> Are you asking whether he's joking about (1) the idea of ever
> implementing it, (2) the fact that he hasn't done it yet, or 
> (3) the idea that it's rarely used?  All of those sound 
> reasonable to me...

I'm questioning (1) myself.  This just seems like a bad idea from a
security perspective.  Of course, some kind of sanitization could
mitigate the issue.

-- WXS
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Kris Kennaway | 1 Mar 2006 22:17

Re: HEADS UP: Importing csup into base

On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 04:19:32PM -0500, Wesley Shields wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 01, 2006 at 03:33:41PM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote:
> > Scott Long <scottl <at> samsco.org> writes:
> > 
> > > Maxime Henrion wrote:
> > > > 	Hey all,
> > > > I have released a new snapshot of csup a few minutes ago,
> > > 
> > > [...]
> > > 
> > > >   - Executes (shell commands sent by the server, even more rarely
> > > > used),
> > > 
> > > Are you joking?
> > 
> > Are you asking whether he's joking about (1) the idea of ever
> > implementing it, (2) the fact that he hasn't done it yet, or 
> > (3) the idea that it's rarely used?  All of those sound 
> > reasonable to me...
> 
> I'm questioning (1) myself.  This just seems like a bad idea from a
> security perspective.  Of course, some kind of sanitization could
> mitigate the issue.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that whoever runs the cvsup server
already owns your machine, since they're giving you unauthenticated
source code [1].

Kris
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