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Анатолій Гончаров | 13 Aug 2008 17:35
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Tabs for languages

Sysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to make tabs
for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made example
here: http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca . I made another
example: http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November . But these examples use
subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it be made
using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?

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Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
mailto:Ahonc.ua <at> gmail.com
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Gerard Meijssen | 13 Aug 2008 18:34
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Re: Tabs for languages

Hoi,
How many languages do you currently support? What would be the maximum that
you could safely support ??
Thanks,
       GerardM

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <ahonc.ua <at> gmail.com>wrote:

> Sysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to make
> tabs
> for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made example
> here: http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca . I made another
> example: http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November . But these examples use
> subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it be made
> using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?
>
> --
> Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
> mailto:Ahonc.ua <at> gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> Wiktionary-l <at> lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
_______________________________________________
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Wiktionary-l <at> lists.wikimedia.org
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Conrad Irwin | 14 Aug 2008 00:48

Re: Tabs for languages

It can be done with javascript, I've done it on en.wiktionary. However the
tool that does this ([[en:User:Conrad.Irwin/parser.js]]) does way too many
other things. I ran into a peculiar bug with the # links to each section -
but I'm sure if I were to roll it out again it could be resolved.

The parsing of the page is fairly easy to do, assuming that all language
headers are <h2>, it's just a case of iterating over the whole document and
moving nodes into boxes, tabbing between boxes is trivial to implement in
javascript. The only issue occurs if you expect to get a language heading
within a box, in which case you have to parse recursively which is much
tougher.

The other thing to think about is Category links, do you want to split them
into languages too, that could be the trickiest bit.

It becomes a little ugly after 15 or so languages, as the bar of tabs begins
to take up a noticeable amount of the screen space, and so the useful
information gets pushed further down out of sight.

It would in some ways be nice to have each language separated by some PHP
allowing this effect for anonymous users too, but that leads to further
issues with urls and it would not be a trivial extension to write.

Conrad

2008/8/13 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen <at> gmail.com>

> Hoi,
> How many languages do you currently support? What would be the maximum that
> you could safely support ??
(Continue reading)

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Gerard Meijssen | 14 Aug 2008 01:14
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Re: Tabs for languages

Hoi,
If it becomes ugly after 15 languages, consider that there are something
like over 7000 languages out there. This is not taking into account dialects
and other linguistic entities that would make for something like over
30.000.
Thanks,
       GerardM

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Conrad Irwin
<conrad.irwin <at> googlemail.com>wrote:

> It can be done with javascript, I've done it on en.wiktionary. However the
> tool that does this ([[en:User:Conrad.Irwin/parser.js]]) does way too many
> other things. I ran into a peculiar bug with the # links to each section -
> but I'm sure if I were to roll it out again it could be resolved.
>
> The parsing of the page is fairly easy to do, assuming that all language
> headers are <h2>, it's just a case of iterating over the whole document and
> moving nodes into boxes, tabbing between boxes is trivial to implement in
> javascript. The only issue occurs if you expect to get a language heading
> within a box, in which case you have to parse recursively which is much
> tougher.
>
> The other thing to think about is Category links, do you want to split them
> into languages too, that could be the trickiest bit.
>
> It becomes a little ugly after 15 or so languages, as the bar of tabs
> begins
> to take up a noticeable amount of the screen space, and so the useful
> information gets pushed further down out of sight.
(Continue reading)

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Анатолій Гончаров | 14 Aug 2008 11:06
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Re: Tabs for languages

Gerard, do you know words which used in 7000 languages?

2008/8/14 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen <at> gmail.com>

> Hoi,
> If it becomes ugly after 15 languages, consider that there are something
> like over 7000 languages out there. This is not taking into account
> dialects
> and other linguistic entities that would make for something like over
> 30.000.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Conrad Irwin
> <conrad.irwin <at> googlemail.com>wrote:
>
> > It can be done with javascript, I've done it on en.wiktionary. However
> the
> > tool that does this ([[en:User:Conrad.Irwin/parser.js]]) does way too
> many
> > other things. I ran into a peculiar bug with the # links to each section
> -
> > but I'm sure if I were to roll it out again it could be resolved.
> >
> > The parsing of the page is fairly easy to do, assuming that all language
> > headers are <h2>, it's just a case of iterating over the whole document
> and
> > moving nodes into boxes, tabbing between boxes is trivial to implement in
> > javascript. The only issue occurs if you expect to get a language heading
> > within a box, in which case you have to parse recursively which is much
(Continue reading)

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Muke Tever | 14 Aug 2008 12:47
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Re: Tabs for languages

On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:34:03 -0600, Gerard Meijssen  
<gerard.meijssen@...> wrote:

> Hoi,
> How many languages do you currently support? What would be the maximum  
> that
> you could safely support ??

It's just a fancy format for a disambiguation page.  That particular  
design may not extend well, but in principle one could be devised to  
handle as many languages as necessary.

	*Muke!
--

-- 
http://frath.net/
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Gerard Meijssen | 14 Aug 2008 13:04
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Re: Tabs for languages

Hoi,
Try the word Niue, we have a selection of languages that know this word in
OmegaWiki. I agree with Muke that another interface can be found that will
do a better job.  Even for this word you will not find 7000 languages,
obviously different scripts makes for smaller collections.
Thanks,
      GerardM

http://www.omegawiki.org/index.php?title=DefinedMeaning:Niue%20(631572)&dataset=uw

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Анатолій Гончаров <ahonc.ua <at> gmail.com>wrote:

> Gerard, do you know words which used in 7000 languages?
>
> 2008/8/14 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen <at> gmail.com>
>
> > Hoi,
> > If it becomes ugly after 15 languages, consider that there are something
> > like over 7000 languages out there. This is not taking into account
> > dialects
> > and other linguistic entities that would make for something like over
> > 30.000.
> > Thanks,
> >       GerardM
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Conrad Irwin
> > <conrad.irwin <at> googlemail.com>wrote:
> >
> > > It can be done with javascript, I've done it on en.wiktionary. However
> > the
(Continue reading)

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Vitaly V. | 15 Aug 2008 19:48
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Re: Tabs for languages

First, proposed system will make user less likely to check what word mean in
second/third language.
It will also make user less likely to edit second third language definition,
especially if languages belong to same family and user/editor speaks more
then 2 languages.
Also, that will make some comparisons of different languages definitions
less convenient - now for words defined in two-three languages you can use
scroll/mouse scroll. With proposed system, again, you have to click.

In terms of language selection convenience, we already got "Contents" menu
with all languages clearly visible.

Vitaly

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Анатолій Гончаров <ahonc.ua <at> gmail.com>wrote:

> Sysop of Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries Al Silonov suggests to make
> tabs
> for different languages if the word uses in many languages. He made example
> here: http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Al_Silonov/yucca . I made another
> example: http://uk.wiktionary.org/wiki/November . But these examples use
> subpages and we cannot add the tab "Add other language...". Can it be made
> using scripts and without subpages? And who can make it?
>
> --
> Анатолій Гончаров (Ahonc)
> mailto:Ahonc.ua <at> gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> Wiktionary-l <at> lists.wikimedia.org
(Continue reading)

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Muke Tever | 15 Aug 2008 22:19
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Re: Tabs for languages

Vitaly V. <dr.vitall@...> wrote:
> First, proposed system will make user less likely to check what word  
> mean in second/third language.

You mean they'll be able to find the information they're looking for more  
easily, and not be distracted by the information they're not looking for?

> It will also make user less likely to edit second third language  
> definition, especially if languages belong to same family and user/editor
> speaks more then 2 languages.

If a user's going to edit information, they're going to edit information,  
whatever page it's on.  I suspect, as well, that people who habitually  
edit two or more languages are used to finding the information for  
corresponding words on different pages; having them on the same page is  
merely a bonus (and increasingly less of a bonus on those future pages  
that may have entries for over a hundred languages on them).

> Also, that will make some comparisons of different languages definitions
> less convenient - now for words defined in two-three languages you can  
> use scroll/mouse scroll. With proposed system, again, you have to click.

You mean you can click and bring up a new tab or window to see it  
side-by-side, instead of having to scroll back and forth each time you  
want to compare bits of information?  I don't know about your browser, but  
in mine it's _more_ convenient to open a link in a new tab than to  
duplicate one.

> In terms of language selection convenience, we already got "Contents"  
> menu with all languages clearly visible.
(Continue reading)

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Vitaly V. | 16 Aug 2008 03:01
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Re: Tabs for languages

>> First, proposed system will make user less likely to check what word
>> mean in second/third language.
>You mean they'll be able to find the information they're looking for more
>easily, and not be distracted by the information they're not looking for?

It make it more harder - for many languages definitions user will HAVE TO
make an extra mouse click.
Plus you can feed your curiosity about what word in question mean in other
languages just by scrolling - without need for multiple mouse clicks.

>> It will also make user less likely to edit second third language
>> definition, especially if languages belong to same family and user/editor
> >speaks more then 2 languages.
>If a user's going to edit information, they're going to edit information,
>whatever page it's on.

You seems to miss the point - if user don't see information/definition, he
will never edit it. And there lots of editors, that fix or add definitions
only when they use Wiktionary and see mistakes or missing information.

>> Also, that will make some comparisons of different languages definitions
>> less convenient - now for words defined in two-three languages you can
>> use scroll/mouse scroll. With proposed system, again, you have to click.
>You mean you can click and bring up a new tab or window to see it
>side-by-side, instead of having to scroll back and forth each time you
>want to compare bits of information?

I mean what I said - with current system you have NO NEED to make an extra
clicks at all if word defined using up to 3 or 4 languages - and there a LOT
of words like that.
(Continue reading)

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