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Gerard Meijssen | 1 Oct 2004 09:49
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Re: Request for comment

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> On [[wikt:nl:Egypte]] I have two things that I would like your 
> comments for.
>
> * Under the header for pronounciation, it says on a line: * Geluid: 
> Egypte
>    When pressing the template for sound ( {{-sound-}}translates to 
> Geluid ), you get a sound.howto
>    When pressing on Egypte, the process of letting you hear Egypte 
> will start (media)
> *Under the header for Translations, there are three lines for Portugese;
>    * Indicating Portugese
>       One line with Brazilian Portugese and the word
>       One line with Portugese Portugese and the word
>
> With the first thing I think I give ample attention to the potential 
> problems with sound. When there is a SAMPA transliteration, it would 
> be on a seperate line and the SAMPA would get you to something about 
> SAMPA,
>
> With the second thing I think I have a proper way of presenting 
> alternate standard translations within one language. the templates 
> used are {{pr br}} and {{pt pt}}
>
> Thanks,
>    GerardM

In addition  to Portugese, English and German, I have added two 
templates for Chinese zh-sc for Simplified Chinese and zh-tc for
(Continue reading)

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Gerard Meijssen | 3 Oct 2004 15:02
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Cooperation between Wikipedia and Wiktionary using templates

Hoi,
Wikipedia and Wiktionary are currently the two biggest projects of 
Wikimedia (as far as I know). These projects are quite seperate from 
each other. They are more seperate than is good for either project. 
Typically, the type of information in Wiktionary cannot be found in 
Wikipedia, things like translations and pronounciation are better 
developped in Wikipedia while more more encyclopedic information can be 
found in Wikipedia.

To enhance the cooperation I added a template in Wiktionary (both in en: 
and nl) called -info-. This template will refer to the Wikipedia article 
with the same name as the Wiktionary article.
On Wikipedia (both en: and nl:) I have added a template called wikt, 
this template has one parameter; this is the name of the article on 
Wiktionary. The reason for a parameter is that Wikipedia has many 
articles that are disambigued and given a name that differs from the 
Wiktionary name. A second reason is that the nl:wiktionary does not have 
first character capitalisation for article names any more. Here it is 
important that the word is spelled correctly.

The importance of these interproject links is not only in giving more 
information to our users, it is also important to make people aware that 
dictionary content has its place and that it is really welcome in 
Wiktionary. It makes for people that are used to contributing to 
Wikipedia, to contribute to Wiktionary as well.

One nice word recently added to the nl:wiktionary is [[wikt:nl:grote 
muggenorchis]], an orchid it has three translations. This information is 
not really welcom on nl:wikipedia and this way it finds its place .. :)
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Gerard Meijssen | 5 Oct 2004 20:59
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Vandalism on nl:wiktionary

There is a person who thinks it funny to add texts to templates that are 
used on almost all pages of nl:wiktionary. I have protected the 
templates that were abused so far.

I have two questions:
*The latest IP number used is 213.224.16.165 
<http://nl.wiktionary.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Speciaal:Contributions&target=213.224.16.165> 
can we find if this person is known as a wikipedia user as well ?
*I want to protect all templates against this kind of abuse. Is there a 
way of doing this easily ?

Thanks,
    GerardM
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Nefercheprure Waenre | 7 Oct 2004 16:36
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czech wiktionary: case sensitive titles

Hello.

Would there be any objections here to setting $wgCapitalLinks = false;
for the Czech Wiktionary? I have been advised by en:User:Angela to ask here,
before posting the change request submittal to wikitech-l. On the wiktionary
itself there are no objections as of today (three users supporting the switch
of a total of thirteen users).

--TMA [http://cs.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wikipedista:TMA]
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Sj | 8 Oct 2004 05:12
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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Project proposal: Cooperation with Free Dictionaries Project

Hi Erdal,

(moving this thread to the wiktionary mailing-list)
I think there has been some discussion of running bots like this.  
The validation setup at fdicts looks pretty sweet; some collaboration
between the projects would be a fine thing.

+sj+

On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:46:42 +0200, Erdal Ronahi <erdal.ronahi@...> wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I am proposing a joint venture of Wikipedia with fdicts.com, a Free
> Dictionaries Project (not run by me, BTW)
> 
> The aim of fdicts.com is to provide free (GPL or GFDL) dictionaries in
> multiple languages. What makes fdicts.com unique is an algorithm for the
> automatized creation of new dictionaries out of existing. This process
> is similar to creating interlinks (to NONEXISTING pages) with a bot and
> is more effective, the more free dictionaries already exist.
> 
> An example for de, en, fr and tr (turkish):
> if there are these entries
> 
> [house - Haus] (en-de)
> [house - maison] (en-fr)
> [maison -Haus] (fr-de)
> [house - ev] (en-tr)
> [Haus - ev] (de-tr)
>
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Gerard Meijssen | 9 Oct 2004 14:25
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Linking from Wikipedia to Wiktionary

Hoi,
There is an acrimonious discussion on nl:wikipedia. This has to do with 
some people who consider wiktionary to be external to wikipedia and, 
they consider the information that a dictionary supplies to be of no 
additional value to wikipedia.

I want to diffuse this situation and I need the help from the 
developpers for that. The content of other wikipedia's can be found by 
clicking on the left hand side under "in other languages". I would like 
a method that allows us to link to the wiktionary article  in that 
general area.

*This will remove any standard references to wiktionary from the 
wikipedia article itself.
*The content of a sister article in another wikipedia should 
(theoretically) not add information to a wikipedia article as, it should 
only present the information in another language. As the referal to 
other wikipedia's is an established fact, the inclusion in that space of 
wiktionary information should not be a problem as wiktionary DOES add 
relevant information to the wikipedia article (translations, etymology, 
pronounciation etc)
* Technically, the link requires a parameter as some wiktionaries do not 
have first character capitalisation.

The link from Wiktionary to Wikipedia is not a problem; here it is 
accepted that encyclopedic information should find its way in Wikipedia. 
The fact that dictionary information has no place in Wikipedia is also 
an established and respected fact.

Thanks,
(Continue reading)

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Ray Saintonge | 9 Oct 2004 22:19

Re: Linking from Wikipedia to Wiktionary

I fail to understand what the argument is about.

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> There is an acrimonious discussion on nl:wikipedia. This has to do 
> with some people who consider wiktionary to be external to wikipedia 
> and, they consider the information that a dictionary supplies to be of 
> no additional value to wikipedia. 

I would disagree with them about that.

> I want to diffuse this situation and I need the help from the 
> developpers for that. The content of other wikipedia's can be found by 
> clicking on the left hand side under "in other languages". I would 
> like a method that allows us to link to the wiktionary article  in 
> that general area. 

A link in the article should accomplish that more easily.

> *This will remove any standard references to wiktionary from the 
> wikipedia article itself. 

Why would you want to do that?

> *The content of a sister article in another wikipedia should 
> (theoretically) not add information to a wikipedia article as, it 
> should only present the information in another language. As the 
> referal to other wikipedia's is an established fact, the inclusion in 
> that space of wiktionary information should not be a problem as 
> wiktionary DOES add relevant information to the wikipedia article
(Continue reading)

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Gerard Meijssen | 9 Oct 2004 22:49
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Re: Linking from Wikipedia to Wiktionary

Ray Saintonge wrote:

> I fail to understand what the argument is about.
>
> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>
>> There is an acrimonious discussion on nl:wikipedia. This has to do 
>> with some people who consider wiktionary to be external to wikipedia 
>> and, they consider the information that a dictionary supplies to be 
>> of no additional value to wikipedia. 
>
>
> I would disagree with them about that.

But it is the argument. And like you, I disagree.

>
>> I want to diffuse this situation and I need the help from the 
>> developpers for that. The content of other wikipedia's can be found 
>> by clicking on the left hand side under "in other languages". I would 
>> like a method that allows us to link to the wiktionary article  in 
>> that general area. 
>
>
> A link in the article should accomplish that more easily.

This link is what these people do not want and the existing link is what 
they object to. They say it is "advertizing an external website" and "as 
the people have no use for dictionary data, we can do without".
(Continue reading)

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Ray Saintonge | 9 Oct 2004 23:40

Re: Linking from Wikipedia to Wiktionary

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> Ray Saintonge wrote:
>
>>> I want to diffuse this situation and I need the help from the 
>>> developpers for that. The content of other wikipedia's can be found 
>>> by clicking on the left hand side under "in other languages". I 
>>> would like a method that allows us to link to the wiktionary 
>>> article  in that general area. 
>>
>> A link in the article should accomplish that more easily.
>
> This link is what these people do not want and the existing link is 
> what they object to. They say it is "advertizing an external website" 
> and "as the people have no use for dictionary data, we can do without". 

Sounds like an extreme view to me!

>> Why would you want to do that?
>
> *This will remove any standard references to wiktionary from the 
> wikipedia article itself.
> I do not care where there is a link from a wikipedia article to a 
> wiktionary articel *as long as this link is there* !!! I do NOT want 
> to remove the links from wikipedia to wiktionary. I am of the opinion 
> that both Wikipedia and Wiktionary are sister projects and complement 
> each other. 

We may disagree about HOW the Wikiweb is structured, but we do agree 
that these interwiki relationships should exist.  A sister site is part
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Gerard Meijssen | 11 Oct 2004 09:17
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Methodology for handling alternate ways of writing in wiktionary

Hoi,
I have just posted the methodology of handling alternate ways of writing 
in Wiktionary on Meta 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Alternate_writing_in_Wiktionary. This 
method is, as used on the nl:wiktionary and it follows a previous post 
on this mailing list where I asked for comments on this subject.

This method handles both the descriptions of alternate spellings (colour 
vs color) as alternate spellings and the different usage of 
charactersets (eg simplified and traditional Chinese)..

As always I am happy to receive your comments as these allow for the 
improvement of the methodology. One recent change implemented for 
instance is the use of categories to indicate words in a language. As 
almost all words have been touched by a database change recently, the 
categories that are populated from the language templates, will show 
their content. (Currently there are 375 Dutch words and 185 English 
words on a total of 5414 articles). 125 more to go to reach the 500 mark 
for Dutch words :)

Thanks,
    GerardM
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Gmane