Siebrand Mazeland | 17 Feb 21:21 2008
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MediaWiki 1.12 about to be branched: please give localisation a push

Dear translators,

According to the last 'CTO weekly report'[1] Brion is about to
branch MediaWiki version 1.12 this week. That means that this
version of MediaWiki is the version of the software that new
users of MediaWiki will be using for a while (outside of
Wikimedia not everyone is always running the 'bleeding edge'
version of MediaWiki).

Even though this version of MediaWiki will have the largest
increase ever in support for languages, this is the time to
finish those loose ends.

Please check if you have any remaining translations in the
core messages or if you can at least complete the most often
used messages in the languages you are able to contribute to
in Betawiki[2].

End of year 2007 I sent out an overview of MediaWiki
localisation[3]. In that report I set a few ambitious goals
for MediaWiki localisation in 2008. I am happy to report that
we are well on track to reaching those goals[4],[5]. However,
it is very important to realise that localisation is an
ongoing process: messages are being added constantly and
sometimes they also change. These are all things that are made
visible when using Betawiki as the platform for MediaWiki
localisation. Based on user input, we also keep on improving
the tools used.

We still need more translators for languages that have not
(Continue reading)

Anders Wegge Jakobsen | 18 Feb 11:24 2008
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Re: [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in MediaWiki

Anders Wegge Jakobsen <wegge <at> wegge.dk> writes:

 Six weeks ago I became involved in an argument about translation of
the mediawiki software. I made the comment below.

>  Yes, the obvious solution is that I maintain a private translation;
> at the same time one or more of the admins at dawiki plays catchup,
> whenever the inerface suddenly start sprouting english words, and the
> rest of the world get to see the worst of OSS. Everyone is happy.

 Unfortunately, it have proven to be true. No substantial changes to
the danish localization have happened since then. Since I have cooled
of a bit since then, and my prediction have proven true, I'll try to
summarize the problems with localization on translatewiki as I see
them:

* With the current setup, translators will need to access the code, to
  actually see what cryptical strings like 'You have not specified
  target revision or revi sions to perform this function on.' actually
  mean.

* That a web interface exists does not equal that a large horde of
  skilled translators will be attracted.

* Noone likes to see others credited with their work.

 This is not an attempt to renew a heated argument. The idea of
providing a relative easy-to-use interface for translation work is
better than having no one translating the interface into any
particular language. But in my opinion, it is not at present time a
(Continue reading)

Siebrand Mazeland | 18 Feb 11:47 2008
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Re: [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in MediaWiki

Hi Wegge,

Contrary to your belief I think you I are still quite angry at something that happended or something that
someone did or wrote. I have problem identifying what it is exactly, which makes it hard to address. I find
few of the statements you made below to be true.

Can you let us know what you would need to be satisfied, or in your eyes be properly credited for everything
you have done for the Danish translation? Your current choice of debate does not strike me as solution
driven, which is something I personally very much prefer.

Kind regards,

Siebrand Mazeland

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: wikitech-l-bounces <at> lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikitech-l-bounces <at> lists.wikimedia.org]
Namens Anders Wegge Jakobsen
Verzonden: maandag 18 februari 2008 11:25
Aan: Wikimedia developers; Wikimedia Translators; MediaWiki internationalisation
Onderwerp: Re: [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in MediaWiki

Anders Wegge Jakobsen <wegge <at> wegge.dk> writes:

 Six weeks ago I became involved in an argument about translation of the mediawiki software. I made the
comment below.

>  Yes, the obvious solution is that I maintain a private translation; 
> at the same time one or more of the admins at dawiki plays catchup, 
> whenever the inerface suddenly start sprouting english words, and the 
> rest of the world get to see the worst of OSS. Everyone is happy.
(Continue reading)

Anders Wegge Jakobsen | 18 Feb 12:25 2008
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Re: [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation in MediaWiki

"Siebrand Mazeland" <s.mazeland <at> xs4all.nl> writes:

> Contrary to your belief I think you I are still quite angry at
> something that happended or something that someone did or wrote. I
> have problem identifying what it is exactly, which makes it hard to
> address. I find few of the statements you made below to be true.

 Yes, I'm still angry about some of the comments. I will be for
eternity. But since that won't change, just forget it. Neither you,
nor Niklas is to be blamed for someone else making flippant remarks.

> Can you let us know what you would need to be satisfied, or in your
> eyes be properly credited for everything you have done for the
> Danish translation? Your current choice of debate does not strike me
> as solution driven, which is something I personally very much
> prefer.

 The reason I may seem un-constructive, is the simple fact that while
I'm able to point out the problems as I see them, I have no idea how
to solve them. If we leave my ego out of the equation for the moment,
the main issue is that at some of the interface messages will be
completely unknown and opaque to the translators. The obvious solution
to that is instrumenting the code, so that any message can be seen in
its context. That is going to take quite a lot of time, and not
something I think will happen right away.

 More realistic, would be crafting a set of more or less static pages,
that displays all of the messages in the contexts they are used. That
will ba a game of constant catchup, but at least it will be easier
than to change the entire codebase to include a demo feature of sorts.
(Continue reading)

Siebrand Mazeland | 18 Feb 12:57 2008
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Re: [Translators-l] [Wikitech-l] An update on localisation inMediaWiki

Hi Wegge,

Thank you for your clarification. No system is perfect. I am of the opinion though that Translate can give
more insight and information which leads to a more effective and efficient translation process than
keeping an eye on SVN commits. Our opinions differ, obviously, so no need to elaborate on that. Instead, I
chose to inform you. Please read on.

Extension Translate currently offers a way to add translation help in the language 'qqq'. Those hints are
displayed in the Betawiki UI and are also exported to the .po files for offline translation. If the
translation help is written correctly, translators would have all the context they need. All this is
being done 'wiki-style', so improvements must be made and are being made.

An example of a translation hint is http://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Undeletelink/qqq for a
message that was added recently.

Currently 588 of 1766 core messages have some form of documentation[1]. For extensions 99 messages have
been documented. Making the sets complete is a lot of work. Currently about 10-15 messages are documented
every week[2]. I would love more developer types like you to contribute on localisation by adding message
documentation (basically it is a part of i18n). Please see this as an invitation. Anyone with the
translator role can add such messages in Betawiki.

An example of a translation hint in Translate context can be seen at
http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Image:Translation_hint_example.png. Additional fallback
languages while translating are a second instrument we use to make life easier for translators[3].

I hope I have given you and others some additional insight in the workings of Betawiki with the above.

Cheers! Siebrand

[1] http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special%3ATranslate&task=reviewall&group=core&language=qqq&limit=100
(Continue reading)

Waldir Pimenta | 23 Feb 16:08 2008
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UNESCO B <at> bel program

Probably I am saying something that already has been discussed, but I
just came today to these pages:

http://webworld.unesco.org/imld/babel_en.html
http://portal.unesco.org/ci/en/ev.php-URL_ID=16540&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

about UNESCO's B <at> abel program, and it seemed like something
interesting for Wikimedia. They could be potential partners, help
promote the i18n efforts, or something... Their missions looks a lot
similar to WM's. Does anyone know if contact has been made between WM
and this project? Perhaps I should have sent this to the foundation
mailing list instead...

Waldir

Gmane